The Future: Game polarized into Engineered Wars and Farm Wars.

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Originally Posted by iBork

Thirdly, defenseless bases do nothing as far as war advantage. ZERO advantage. Do the math.

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Zero advantage eh? So why are more and more people doing it? Just for the lulz?

I wish certain engineers could be more honest about their motives. Bold face lies just adds fuel to the fire.

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Originally Posted by Billius

The smart strategists will win, but the real art of war attacking and defending will be lost.

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You are 100% right. I am predicting the exact same thing as more and more clans are moving into this direction, be it to negate their opponents' engineering advantage or to create an unfair advantage over others themselves.

Moreover, people with "normal" accounts will most likely be expected/required to have multiple lopsided bases (.5, defenceless or other forms of engineering) in order to be accepted into major war clans since a good old-fashioned single-account guy with defences built would be considered a liability.

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Originally Posted by orangemojo

You are wrong that the highly competitive will have to use engineering. The highly competitive now is defined as th10+ only or even th11 only. Engineered bases in that category would only be a handicap.

That bieng said, making an engineered base isnt easy. It deters most people from building it.

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You are right that TH10/11 have less to gain from engineering although a clan full of 10.5's (with 1 max TH11 on top) would still be a major force to be reckoned with and would undoubtedly get many matches in their favour due to sandbagging. There are plenty of mixed clans though that benefit greatly from engineering and herein lies the problem as a lot of folks who look at the bigger picture see that this is not a healthy direction for the game to evolve.

Whether making an engineered base is easy or not is really not the point. Even if it were incredibly difficult (which is not the case) why should that justify an obviously unbalanced war and a major advantage over another clan?

And contrary to what you said, making an engineered base to the point where it turns into an asset in wars is not that difficult. A lot of clans have engineered bases already and those among us with absolutely no social/dating life and no real-life friends can even entertain entire engineered clans all by themselves to the point where they can easily rack up long winning streaks with their eyes closed without needing any attacking skills whatsoever. Keep in mind that many people simply use farming bots or buy gems to keep the resources for offence upgrades flowing and you could always boost your barracks to help get the resources for an upgrade sooner.

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Originally Posted by iBork

First off, whatever order you build a base, it takes the same amount of time. So this logic is false.

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Your logic is false as engineering is not about the order in which you build things. Why would a hardcore engineer with maxed offence suddenly drop defences as long as he is benefiting greatly from his engineered base? Maybe a portion of .5's plan on dropping defences eventually but even that would not justify their matchmaking advantage before those defences are built.

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Originally Posted by iBork

Second, low offense/high offense bases are not the reason people loose wars. It's always because they have low heroes, have maxed out their defense while having low level troops.

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Nobody is saying that engineering is always to blame when someone loses. Of course, higher-level heroes are better but that applies to everyone and has nothing to do with engineering.

All other things being equal, a clan with a defenseless TH11 rather than a maxed TH7 would have a major advantage in war as they would have 2 extra TH11 attacks that could very well decide the war. Heck, that defenceless TH11 could 3-star the top 2 bases of the opponent while everyone else dips down with their attacks. It would be a boring kind of war but one that would give the engineer's clan a huge advantage.

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Originally Posted by iBork

Thirdly, defenseless bases do nothing as far as war advantage. ZERO advantage. Do the math.

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You do the math ... 2 TH11 attacks with max offence vs 0 TH11 attacks due to sandbagging, who do you think would have a major advantage?

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Originally Posted by iBork

In short, your logic is illogical and is based on presumed facts that engineered bases are a problem that must be addressed.

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Engineered bases are a problem that must be addressed.

funny thing is this whole anti-engineer flame war reminds me of all the rusher vs maxer debates that raged on not that long ago. the loud majority on the forums were anti-rusher, saying it was stupid and what-not, and only a few took advantage of the benefits that intelligent rushing (or, dare i say it, engineering) could provide.

sure, the aim was different... rushing was mostly about getting to the higher end of gameplay without the delay of maxing, but the results are very similar when it comes to war - low war weight, lack of a strong defensive base, but select offensive power.

so it turns out that the much-ridiculed rushing tactic actually has some advantages... even if everyone hates those dirty rushers/engineers XD


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a point of terminology - going the x.5 path is not the same as building an engineered base. x.5 just means not building new defences (e.g. xbow, infernos, eagle) and focussing on offensive power for the sake of war matchmaking. anyone who's focussed on war will do this so they don't weigh their clan down... a lot of x.5s will drop the defences later once they have the offensive power (and skill) to take out an equivalent enemy base.
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At all, I see engineering as a positive thing. It´s advanced strategic gaming by players who completely focus on competitive wars. .5-Bases often bring disadvantages in farming and pushing, too. So, basically, these are specialtists on top of 1 aspect of the game. There are either players focussed on pushing or farming, building specialized bases, too.

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Originally Posted by N1NJ4smurf

funny thing is this whole anti-engineer flame war reminds me of all the rusher vs maxer debates that raged on not that long ago. the loud majority on the forums were anti-rusher, saying it was stupid and what-not, and only a few took advantage of the benefits that intelligent rushing (or, dare i say it, engineering) could provide.

sure, the aim was different... rushing was mostly about getting to the higher end of gameplay without the delay of maxing, but the results are very similar when it comes to war - low war weight, lack of a strong defensive base, but select offensive power.

so it turns out that the much-ridiculed rushing tactic actually has some advantages... even if everyone hates those dirty rushers/engineers XD


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a point of terminology - going the x.5 path is not the same as building an engineered base. x.5 just means not building new defences (e.g. xbow, infernos, eagle) and focussing on offensive power for the sake of war matchmaking. anyone who's focussed on war will do this so they don't weigh their clan down... a lot of x.5s will drop the defences later once they have the offensive power (and skill) to take out an equivalent enemy base.
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One of my arguments for rushing used to be "it helps you in war! You're matched with much weaker enemies when you rush" and turns out nobody believed me, until now. People used to think rushing made you a liability in wars, but its the opposite.

They will Not listen!! they dont care, because engineered are gemmers. and it's the benefit for SuperSell. who care about players???? but believe me SuperSell, i wont play this ♥♥♥♥ if you not fix it in October update. I'm done after 3 years

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Originally Posted by SinOfDusk

One of my arguments for rushing used to be "it helps you in war! You're matched with much weaker enemies when you rush" and turns out nobody believed me, until now. People used to think rushing made you a liability in wars, but its the opposite.

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Yeah my rushed mini is ranked as a th7 in war, and still makes a th8 have to dip to 3* it. In this picture it stood up to a th7 mass drags, a th8 mass drags, and then they had no more attacks left so a th10 had to take it out.
http://imgur.com/a/msJHk

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Originally Posted by SinOfDusk

One of my arguments for rushing used to be "it helps you in war! You're matched with much weaker enemies when you rush" and turns out nobody believed me, until now. People used to think rushing made you a liability in wars, but its the opposite.

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Smart rushing does give you an advantage in war, not regular rushing though, and i've seen absolutely zero smart rushers in game who arent forumers, most people don't even believe me when i tell them that rushing can actually be good.

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Originally Posted by TheJager

Smart rushing does give you an advantage in war, not regular rushing though, and i've seen absolutely zero smart rushers in game who arent forumers, most people don't even believe me when i tell them that rushing can actually be good.

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My mini was just plain rushed, not even smartly rushed to th7, then I recovered a bit. After this, I discovered the forums and smartly rushed my main. So I didn't see the advantage of rushing before the forums, but my mini looked closer to smartly rushed before I discovered the forums.