When you attack a base, why do you prefer one attack over another? On a base, what do you look for to HGH and what do you look for to GoHo?
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When you attack a base, why do you prefer one attack over another? On a base, what do you look for to HGH and what do you look for to GoHo?
I use Goho when there is only one dgb location and I'm able to take the queen out and the dgb location easily. When you say HGH do you mean Hghb? Most people use bowlers with that strategy which makes it even more effective. I prefer HGHB more because most th9 bases have more then one dgb spot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikePie66
why is HGHB better at dealing with multi DGB's than goho?
GiHeHo is different than HGHB. Do you really mean GiHeHo?
You could say I've (cough) done a few TH9 GiHeHo attacks... :)
I always look for GiHeHo before almost any other TH9 war attack, including GoHo and GoVaHo (and that's saying a lot).
Why?
Because if it's there, it's about as easy an attack as possible and can be brutally effective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaticfringe
Besides bowlers being the main difference, why is GiHeHo more popular than GoHo? What does GiHeHo do better than GoHo? Also, what does HGHB do better than GoHo?
What do you look for in a base to GiHeHo, HGHB, GoHo? (besides the first person mentioning the dgb locations, i really didn't understand that.)
Whoa, let's be real clear here---GiHeHo, at least in my mind, is a vastly underrated/underused TH9 war attack. GoHo is far, far more popular, but it isn't necessarily better at all. As a matter of fact, I'd put GiHeHo easily on par with a GoHo on most bases (& that's saying a lot). Which is better, of course, is base dependent, but GiHeHo borders on a brainless attack most the time. It's repeatable, similar strategy and very easy to execute (more to follow).Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley1001
I'm NOT an expert of HGHB, but it has the look of being scary good on the right base. Correctly executed, HGHB gets insane ranged DPS and heal and since the KS isn't using hogs, they just blow through DGB locations & often 1/2-3/4 of the entire base.
What GiHeHo does better than GoHo is always give the attacker a chance, even if all hogs die, as long as you keep the healers up. This is especially true with higher level heroes. You also don't need to worry about WB, seldom use jump/EQ, and you use a rage early, which just really helps the KS work through the entry part of the base, big time. Most of my GoHo almost always use a jump, which means you generally only have 2 heals for hogs and/or lack a rage for the KS. As you can expect, each attack has it's positives vs negatives
It's the ~10 giants that make the difference with GiHeHo, as they can work through even L11 walls, while golems have no chance at all at working through walls on a timely basis. This is why you need Wbs and a jump most the time. But this comes at a cost---the giants need to be healed, which means you are using ~3 healers and their biggest enemy is ADs, which usually need to go down asap. Healers down early is often eyebrow raising in terms of the attack having a shot at a 3*
What I look for is easy access to the AQ and taking down an AQ at the same time. When you can easily get both, this is often an ideal time to consider. An example of such might be:
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...star-this-base
As you can see, the AD is only behind 1 wall, the healers will be OOR until the giants break into that compartment, and the enemy AQ will most certainly jump into the exact same compartment that the target AD is in. Further, it's almost hilarious at how easy it is to get the remaining 3 (but you only target 2 ADs with hogs). Another fairly common challenge (actually, it's one of the bigger challenges) is getting the cuts in order and here they look extremely easy. This borders on a layup for GiHeHo
While it depends on how fast I can make my cuts, the general idea is to rage the giants/KS into the AD, which makes perfect sense. Get that stupid thing down asap! If possible, I often will poison the AQ with my lower level poison and use my higher level, CC poison on the CC. Note that the AQ will go down fairly easy most the time and keep this little nugget of advice in your back pocket: Don't be impatient dropping your BK in many/most situations, especially if your healers are working into an annoying hair dryer. They just love to get off the giants and start healing heroes which you do NOT want early, if at all (maybe mid to late a switch is in order, but if the giants go down, even a BK with 3 healers on him sucks).
Then, immediately after that, use 2 groups of ~12 hogs into the closest ADs to the healers, then use a heal on each group. Ideally, you leave the last AD to be the one that is furthest from your healers. You have 1 remaining heal to use accordingly on either group of hogs (often it's the group that is furthest away from the KS, but that's an, "in general" comment).
As such, it often works like this: (1) CC giants, then 4 of your own giants, (2) healers asap!, (3) cuts (can be wiz or a baby drag in some situations), heroes (in general start with AQ, then BK), (4) rage (5) poison CC and AQ (this can totally vary depending on base---could fit in at step 3, it just depends!), (6) 12 hogs, then heal, (7) remaining ~12 hogs, heal.
I first learned this from: http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...or-TH9s-GiHeHo
Note that they demonstrate a slightly different method than what I do above, but it's all good. I farm in Titans with GiHeHo and most the time, the bases are like war bases (CCs are almost always full, high level TH9s (when I finally find one!), etc.) & the results are often very, very good, much better than substantially all TH9 attacks I get against me....
I agree. I think that HGHB and giheho are better when dealing with dgbs because the ks is bigger and is able to cover much more space where as with a Goho, hogs are the key thing making it much more susceptible to dgbs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaticfringe
Yo thanks for the help lunatic! You da man...couple questions tho...
1) since the KS isn't using hogs, they just blow through DGB locations & often 1/2-3/4 of the entire base. The KS in a GoHo doesn't use hogs...do you mean that because of the power of the giants healers+bowlers, they can take out a significant part of the base?
2) but you only target 2 ADs with hogs).Why only targetting two ADs with hogs? with 24 hogs can't you use ~8 hogs per AD and heal per group?
and just to recap...
GiHeHo and HGHB pros:
big killsquad so messing up with hogs still gives attacker a chance
extremely powerful on a base with easy queen kill and AD kills
high DPS
no worrying about walls
GOHO pros:
powerful on a base with hard to reach ADs and AS (within second wall or further) and can easily take out 1-2 dgb locations
very tanky
The comment you are quoting from me relates to the KS in a HGHB attack, which yes, it doesn't use, nor need, hogs. The primary thing hogs are used for in HGHB, as such relates to the KS, is to keep the giants (&, perhaps bowlers) going straight/in the core. And, oh yes, raged giants/healers/bowlers/heroes just gut bases; 1/2 to 3/4 isn't an exaggeration, especially on the correct base. It's actually quite entertaining. As you will hear over and over, funneling is the key to a successful HGHB attack. Bowlers are exceptional at wandering...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley1001
I wouldn't, but I'm not going to say it's out of the question. I've found that, in general, you need a certain amount of hogs to work through defenses quickly, otherwise the heal fades while they are still working on said defenses and end up getting killed off. 8 seems like you are pushing it, especially when an L3 bow is on the hit list...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley1001
My experience is that you can lose all your hogs, yet still clear the base (obviously, better chance with high level heroes than low level) if the healers survive. I do this over and over again. They do not necessarily have to make it to the bitter end, but long enough to clear a substantial portion of the base. If the last AD does, in fact, get them, usually doom has already set in on the base.
Lately, most of my GiHeHo misses have overwhelmingly been because of the god-OI$#@$!! leaf blower. Yes, that stupid, highly annoying, piece of turd that blows air units all over the place. Healers just LOVE to get off the giants and onto other troops, especially heroes. Unless it's late in the raid and most defenses are down, I loathe my healers on my BK or AQ. Healing sucks on heroes (here's a nasty look towards AQ walk attacks....). You want your healers stuck on your giants like glue. Don't be impatient on dropping your BK at the beginning of a run, as he often rushes in to take the AQ down and healers love to jump on his back as well.
Ehh, these 2 attacks are just vastly different. Giants are much, much easier to control than bowlers. Funneling is important with a GiHeHo, yes (as you don't want your heroes drifting), but that's often a much easier funnel than bowlers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley1001
Here, you are grouping the two attacks together and I wouldn't do that. They are way too different. On a GiHeHo, you primarily focus on the KS at the beginning of the attack, then switch to hogs and tend to focus on them more than the KS.
On HGHB, however, it's overwhelmingly all about the KS. Hogs border on an afterthought. And for someone who is a massive GiHeHo fan (I farm with it), it's EASY to get caught watching...
Hell, I JUST did a few 3* attacks using HGHB last night in war and did that exact thing (i.e. got caught watching) and forgot/was way late on my 2nd rage for the KS. Attack still worked, but I laughed and audibly said, "DUH" to myself...
With HGHB, yes, NOT necessarily with GiHeHo. Giants can get stuck on walls. The key though is whether they are attracting attention/tanking. If they are, the base is pretty much done, as ~23 hogs and 3 heals will just torch most bases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley1001
For GiHeHo, that tends to be a yes. I almost always release the giants/KS heading directly into the AQ. You seldom, if ever, want to start hogging in a GiHeHo and leave the AQ un-distracted, allowing her to pick off hogs. Ugh...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley1001
The Pro of a GoHo is that you aren't panicking about ADs killing your healers! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley1001
On a more serious note, it's greatest strength is that it's a fairly basic, but very, very powerful attack that has the potential to 3* a lot of TH9 war bases. When to use it is base specific, which I know doesn't help much, but it's the truth. I suppose if I were to summarize WHEN to use it, it would be where I could (1) path to the enemy AQ with my KS (likely my own BK) and (2) hopefully take out a DGB in the process. If you have a base that allows for that, I'd strongly consider a GoHo. It's easy, powerful and likely effective given those 2 attributes.
Lunatic what's a good cc for a GiHeHo? Giants?
Also, what league do you farm with it, because with the cost of de, you must be up high right?
He farms in Titans and says to use cc giants. It's in one of his posts further up.Quote:
Originally Posted by NotTheRealPaul
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaticfringe
Giants, giants and more giants.Quote:
Originally Posted by NotTheRealPaul
Granted, putting 6 hogs in the CC, reducing your own 24 hogs by 6 and increasing your own giants by 6 isn't the worst answer, but I don't prefer that at all. While giants will work through even L11 walls, it's still painful and, at least in my mind, I want the best tank/DPS here that I can possibly get.
I actually still pulled off the 3*. I got a solid funnel and ripped the base regardless. It was a little sloppy though. Was funny the long "pause" in the middle of the attack. I was like, "Whoa--what am I doing? THIS ISN'T GIHEHO!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley1001
Duh...lol
Yeah, I would tend to agree with that. Keep in mind, however, that a well placed Jump makes many AQ kills, "easy" that might not otherwise be considered as such. In other words, keep an open mind to a well placed Jump.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley1001
I might also add that I tend to prefer it on, "tighter" bases, but that's a fairly loose guideline, as spread bases don't have a lot of dps at any point and hogs can still do some work, even without a heal.
Not sure what you mean, AS. At the most basic level, I really start eyeballing GiHeHo when I can (fairly) easily get to an AD and the AQ with my KS. Cuts and CC also need to be considered (I almost always pull the CC to see what's inside before launching my giants. A CC full of wiz, loons or even valks need to be considered carefully, as they have the potential to take all 10 giants out fast, so get them poisoned fast and deal with them accordingly).Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley1001
In general, at least with the bases that my clan is seeing right now, it's not the most common attack, but it rears it's head fairly often. Just 2 wars ago, I ripped a max defense TH9 with GiHeHo (on my 3rd account) that had max healers, L6 giants, L5 hogs and BK10, AQ7. Note that those hero levels are LOW and I just torched the base because of the above (easy to get AD and AQ at same time). Further, the CC had a drag in it, which I pulled and got the holy trinity within the first, say, 30 seconds.
This is, in no way, a boast of my talents, just the power of GiHeHo on the right base. I have no clue why people don't use this attack more often, especially when anti Queen walk bases out there that just leave their ADs on the outside (which, oh-by-the-way, make for easy AQ Pop attacks as well...)
As stated above, I'm still learning. It would be premature for me to really start talking about what the, "best" route is if I'm not sure myself. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley1001
ahahah, by AS i meant the leaf blower.
Wondering what "cuts" are. Hearing it used, but no idea what these mysterious "cuts" are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaticfringe
lol, gotcha. Yeah, just be aware of them and their potential impactQuote:
Originally Posted by Wesley1001
Cuts means funneling. I think I first heard the term from Wryhorn/former leader of JTJU, who did some really good instructional videos way back when....Quote:
Originally Posted by NotTheRealPaul
Just want to start this off by giving mad props to Lunaticfringe- I picked up a ton by reading through your comments, and I'm eager to pick HGH back up again and brush off the rust. That being said, I can also offer my (limited) understanding of and opinions on when HGHB is amazing and when it's, well, not.
As Lunatic said earlier, HGHB produces an insane amount of ranged DPS, allowing the killsquad to tear through a much larger portion of the base than regular GoHo. The only way you can really stop this attack is by getting the killsquad to split, and getting the healers to heal less than optimal groups of troops, ideally while getting shot out of the air by the ADs. Because of this weakness in the strategy, tight bases tend to pose much more difficult HGHB targets than more open ones, such as anti-3s (hence the huge welcome of this strategy within the elite war community). Basically, the tighter you can keep your killsquad through the first half of the attack, the better off you'll be. If you think you'll struggle with this, it's probably better to use a GoHo variant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley1001
As for specific traits that I look for when deciding between the two strategies when attacking anti 3 bases, I look at position of potential DGBs and AD positioning. I like to think that I've become decent at reading bases, and if I decide the base has ONLY 2 DGBs that can be reached with a single jump AND get my killsquad to the AQ, I go with GoVaHo. Now, for the bases that don't meet this criteria...
If I can't decide where DGBs are, or they're spread too far out, I start looking for other options. Given the potency of HGHB, this is often the first strategy I look for. The key components that I try to address in any HGHB plan are the AD kills, AS kills, and AQ kills. In looking for the most efficient way to accomplish these objectives, I look for an anchor point on the exterior of the base that provides a decent break in point, giving me access to AT LEAST 2/3 of those objectives within the first few seconds of entering the base (getting 2+ ADs counts as 2/3 for my process of planning). The second, even more crucial part about the break in point of the killsquad is the defensive pathing of the compartment that is entered. If I can easily predict the pathing of the giants within this compartment, and predict that I can get them all (or vast majority) banging on one wall leading TOWARD and additional objective, this is a HUGE boon to the attack. If I can't find a spot that satisfies most of these criteria, I scrap HGHB because it is not (at least in my experience) the dump-your-troops-and-go strategy that some seem to portray it as.
If both of these strategies don't work for me in my mind's eye, then I start branching out and fiddling with various attack strategies involving a hodgepodge assortment of troops. That being said, between these two sets of criteria for Go(Va)Ho and HGHB, I can tackle 60-80% of the anti-3s that I see with relative ease.
Yeah i watched some JTJU, he changed his channel name to RunBuck and had a great HGHB (HeGiHoBo) video recently. Thanks Mekko for the input as well :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaticfringe
EDIT: Mekko, what do you mean why hodgepodge assortment of troops? Shouldn't you look for golaloon first?
I look for QW variants of strategies before I look for LaLoon. TH9 GoVaLo is also a personal favorite of mine. Hodgepodge was meant as a general term for strategies other than GoHo or HGHB.
Many thanks for the props. I'm just happy to contribute even just a little...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekko
One thing that I previously discussed, but I feel I wasn't clear about is...
By it's very nature, GiHeHo prefers a "single" entrance point to be at it's most effective, as all 10 giants are generally dropped in a single spot. As such, the single group of giants needs to tank all the defenses so you can make your cuts. Often, however, this is not the case, as the base you are facing simply has too many defenses lined up and they'd easily pick off helpless wizards. This is where, say, a GoHo is easier, as you can easily bring 2-3 golems to tank along your entrance point.
The best way around this for GiHeHo, at least to me, is to bring a baby drag and decrease the army by a single hog, wiz and archer (or whatever combo you want/need) & then use said baby drag for cuts where wizzies normally would be. This is especially good if a cannon is the culprit that is causing cut issues. It's not as good as a single entry point, but it often works.
Strangely enough, the war I referenced earlier where I pulled off a few successful HGHB attacks, the bases were pretty tight and not ones that I expected HGHB to work well. I was pleasantly surprised that it just ripped them a new one regardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekko
Hey whats dgb
Quote:
Originally Posted by charitarth
Double Giant Bomb
Note that this thread is almost a year old