Who is responsible
like you trade 20 tapes for 40 bolt
and when you only sell at shop 10 get raided
whats your action?
complete the trade so 20 tapes (10 raided 10 get through) for 40 bolt or what?
just curious at whose responsible?
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Who is responsible
like you trade 20 tapes for 40 bolt
and when you only sell at shop 10 get raided
whats your action?
complete the trade so 20 tapes (10 raided 10 get through) for 40 bolt or what?
just curious at whose responsible?
This is the risk of trading. It is 100% between the traders to work it out.
Trading is not a designed part of the game, and therefore SC does not support it. Trading is a player-devised work-around to the SC EM drop algorithm.
Trade at your own risk, recognizing that sometimes trades get sniped or sometimes trade partners turn out to be skunks.
Above all, DO NOT come here to the forum to post about trades gone wrong and name names. That is a CLEAR VIOLATION of the no name and shame rule of the forum, and you can receive forum infractions or forum bans for this behavior.
I think it is dependent on circumstances. If I arrange trade with someone who is online and asks for something and then decides to go awol - if they miss the item because they simply don't get there fast enough, its there fault - I wouldn't want to trade them more than was agreed.
If however item got sniped because an advert was up etc, I would re arrange the trade which would be selling more than originally anticipated.
So far I have only traded with my family (0 cases of failed trade except where barn was full). Or with my hood (a few cases where people just disappeared but never when tools were involved). Generally we just sell our overstock on tools, so really if its not a targeted person trade no big deal if outsider gets item after hood had a chance at it first).
As Perky said, this is something that was created by the players, so the people involved in the trade agree upon how many items each person provides to the other.
As meowfarm noted, the reason for the trade being unsuccessful depends on a few things...an ad was inadvertently put up or still active when the trade began, the buyer forgot to make sure their barn had enough space, etc. When these things are the culprit, then sometimes the party who goofed is the one who should sacrifice and not receive all the items they planned on receiving.
However, there is also another possible reason for the trade to fail, which is no one's fault. There is often lag time between when the seller puts the items into the bin and the buyer sees them appear in order to snatch them. When this happens, someone else who may happen along might see the items before the intended buyer and grab them. In an instance such as this, and using the OP figures, the first set of 10 items is lost, so then the buyer only gets 10 of the 20 items agreed upon. Thus, when its the buyer's turn to be the seller, only 20 of the 40 items agreed upon should now be provided. The 1:2 ratio remains intact for the traders and the original 10 items that were grabbed by an unintended person were at least paid for and not a total loss to the seller. And if the person providing the higher amount of items went first, then the lower amount of items had the mess-up, it would be the right thing to do to return the appropriate amount of items so as to be a fair trade.
There are a myriad of ways a trade can go sideways, and each trade is separate. I would caution against trying to set a forum-standard understanding of what is and is not fair when a trade goes bad and needs to be unwound. (Clearly none of this applies in cases of outright item theft, which, regrettably, does happen.)Quote:
Originally Posted by knitgal2
The key is that each person should be treated fairly. I believe trades should be a win-win for both.
The players in the trade relationship know what he circumstances are, and what is fair, and that notion differs between players.
I once had a trade get intercepted by a follower (before we could remove them) when I was selling to a high level player. What was fair there? (1) I could give him another set of the trade goods and finish the trade. That's fair to him and my bad luck the first set was intercepted. (2) he could give me the items he promised without anything from me. That's fair to me because I am out the items, and got he trade items I wanted. It's not fair to him, because he didn't get what he wanted, but is out the items he gave me. (3) we could just walk away from each other -- I am out trade goods, he is not out trade goods. I got coins for my sniped items, but no trade goods.
What did we do? Because we were in contact over kik he told me to wait 10 minutes for my follower to go away so we could try again. I offered to give him the part of the trade goods I had left over, and he accepted. I expected to get a partial trade from him. He bought my leftovers, and I went to his farm. He sold me my leftovers back for 1 coin. Then he sold me our agreed trade goods at 1 coin. THEN he sold me 60 LEMS at 1 coin. That was what he thought was fair because he saw me as the VICTIM of a trade gone bad, because as a low level olayer it as harder for me to pile up trade goods. He responded to a rotten situation with generosity and kindness. He only asked me to ping him when I had more and pay his act foreward. I did, and I did. We had a great trading relationship for a long time.
A few months later I was in the position to be the generous trader, and I took that opportunity, giving trade goods to an inexperienced trader who put his goods in the front of his store while other things were advertised. Of course they got sniped while I was waiting at the back where he had put the wheat, when he put the goods all the way of the other end of the shop. DOH!
What's fair when there is a mistake, or no mistake, or misunderstanding, or barn full oops? Who would know that? The TRADERS.
So my answer to the question of what is a fair resolution when a trade goes bad is: whatever the players decide. DEMANDING particular compensation or a particular outcome won't get you far, especially when he pain is not shared.
My advice is to approach a failed trade with kind communication, understanding, compassion, and an overriding awareness that we are dealing with an arrangement of pixels for a thing that doesn't exist in the real world.
I have surfed into a shop and bought stuff only to find that (once, found out days later by a fb message, apology not accepted) that it was "for" someone else. And, I have a lot of friends who surf into my shop and snipe stuff for a neighbor. That has happened many, many more times than I purchasing EM in a shop that was likely for someone else.
Yes, it is frustrating but it is hard to hold someone responsible. And, since one person got extremely angry for buying 10 nails that she unfriended me, I see it as good riddance taking a game so seriously. I have lots of friends who stalk my RSS for everything I put up because I put a lot of good stuff and rare crops so I focus on the other friends.
Like I said, I have had other people purchase stuff I put up for others and, often, I figure stuff happens. Whether you blame yourself or the other person, we all just sort of shrug and get on with life. I don't really trade because of the possible problems and I would rather just put stuff up and imagine that the person who buys it was happy to find it.
I've made several hundreds of trades now; only had one go bad.
We just discussed it and come to a swift resolution, I guess in my case it was fortunate I was trading with a high level partner and I believe 10 LEMs were stolen. To a high level player LEMs are pretty much worthless so they just added more to complete it.
I certainly appreciated it, just remember it's a game; and coming up with a quick resolution will help ensure you secure a long term trading partner.
I think that's the most important part of trading, building up have regular trading partners with fair trades. Makes the process so much smoother.
Alvin, you've done a lot of posting regarding trading. As I recollect, a lot of it involved getting bargains and the best possible trading ratio. As I was reading the responses to your OP, I've noticed that everyone who has replied is describing good-intentioned, mutually beneficial trades. Nobody is looking to get "a deal". Both sides of the trades are interested in coming away with a positive experience even though a portion of the trade was lost somewhere in the process. The responses here are showing the best of Hay Day and the players who have invented the trading process.
This basicly a loss for traderQuote:
Originally Posted by knitgal2
I think a good things is shared pain
so the trader ad half of stolen item and the buyer do like its should be (10 stolen + 15 for 40)
or decrease half of the item (10 stolen + 10 for 30)
If your trading partner will go for that, then fine. Just be sure that when you are trading you try to find that win-win. This IS NOT CLASH. You get nothing but a bad trading reputation for insisting on win-lose trades.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlvinSoehendryWijaya
Well said, trading is about helping each other out. If your trying to "win every trade" you will find yourself running out of trading partners fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by PerkyCox
The best trades in my view are ones where your happy, and the other party comes back and wants more in the near future.
in case of stolen itemQuote:
Originally Posted by daz258
then it can be win lose situation or half lose - half lose situation
yeah the best trade is when oth sides are happy
i just trade around 7 bem for 10
but my trade partner just give me a extra 4 so 7:14
so i think he/she really happy to trade with me so he/she give me extra and talk about future trade
find a good trade partner with a good ratio is become harder everyday
I've had followers swipe my stuff I was posting for someone during a trade. What I personally do, if I have extra is offer to post the extra 10 of whatever was taken. I've had some friends tell me it's okay and to keep them, but I always offer & have given the items that were stolen. If someone steals from the trader I am buying from--I also say "it's okay, it happens, I know the feeling" and give them the agreed upon amount (whether they end up giving me back what was swiped or not.)
I like to have honest, friendly, and helpful trades. I've met some really great people through trading.
If you worry less about greed, good things will come to you :)
Well, here's how the neighborhood leader and I used to do it:
We went onto HayDay at the same time. If I wanted something, I would go to chat with her tnat I need something and then go to her roadside shop, as soon as she puts it up, I grab it. If she needs something, she would come to my roadside shop, I would put it up then she will grab it.
If you can't get on at the same time, then you would just have to risk it. Try not to let it get advertised. If it's not advertised, it might slow others from taking it, but it wouldn't totally stop.
As for myself, I get my stuff by the paper. If I look at the friends tabs at the bottom, I'm usually looking for helps--trees and bushes. I don't go to the roadside shops on the friends tabs. But that's just me.
Or less about YOURSELF. As I said before, this is not Clash. Hay Day trading (in my view) is more about helping both sides than one side winning over the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by karliez
I would add my chime to the bells already ringing.
I see the trade as a contract created between 2 parties either via PM or Kik or FB or what ever their form communication. The trade is in essence. I will put up X items in my shop to be bought at specified time. I will then go to your shop where I expect Y items to be placed in your shop at specified time. WETHER OR NOT the intended recipient purchases said items at said time is irrelevant. If I was too slow buying or I failed to have the required room that's on me. sniper or not it's a risk that is taken. same for the other end.
That being said since the High level player usually buys first from the low level player this negates the full barn issue as the high level player usually has the more space in barn. and buy selling first the low level player will have space in theirs (assuming a 1:1 fair trade) And usually the high level player doesn't need what he or she is trading and has even more in abundance so the loss of a few extra doesn't really bother them. so they are usually inclined to go ahead and complete the trade simply because if nothing else they want the room.
so in regards to the original question both are responsible and neither gets blame and the fair action is to complete the trade. in this case 10 tapes for 40 bolts (horribly unfair in my opinion but I'm not the one that agreed to it.) what's fair is what the 2 parties agree to.
*It's only my opinion and as such it only really matters to me but I wanted to share it.
On a semi related note, all of us that trade should always take every possible precaution to minimizing potential raiding.
First one, which is rather obvious is make sure there is no advertising good up while trading, and your last advertised good was sold at least 2 minutes ago so refreshed Daily Dirts have removed you from the paper.
Also, it helps to flush out your followers list; the less eyes on your RSS the lower the chances of interference.
Friends you have added for trading purposes aren't usually a problem, as they often respect that the final few crates are for trade purposes. I've at times seen decent items there when friend shopping but ignore them.
As other people have said, there are typical causes for trade goods getting taken by somebody else. Some risks can and should be controlled by one trade party, the other risks by the other party:
The trading party putting up his goods in his shop is responsable for making sure there is no ad and has not been for several minutes. He could also put up a "canary" to make sure the coast is clear before putting up the trade goods.
It seems logical to me that whoever can best control a risk should be the one bearing the consequences if things go wrong due to that risk.
So, if the trade goods get taken within seconds after being put in the shop, it should be considered the problem of the shop owner and he should replace them or have no right to the trade partners good (not getting them or having to give them back).
If the other trading partner is too slow and the goods get taken after sitting in the shop for 20 seconds, I would consider that the partner's fault and he should hand over his goods without getting a replacement.
So, sharing the loss fifty fifty doesn't seem fair to me.
That beeing said, I do agree with some of the posters that trading should be something done between trustworthy partners and friends. Investing some goods in a longtime trading relation by shouldering the consequences even if it wasn't your fault would appeal to me much more than arguing about who's fault it was.
happy farming
The trading partner is responsable for taking the trade goods quickly. He has to make sure there is enough space in his barn beforehand. Also, any wifi problems on his side are his problem.
Gah I deleted my reply :facepalm: Yes, that's what I meant, caring less about yourself :). You're so right. The way I enjoy playing & will continue to play this way--with a team mentality. We are all striving for a goal, whether it be winning the derby, expanding, etc. I enjoy helping others; I rejoice when someone expands/upgrades as much as when I do myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by PerkyCox
I love the story you shared about the higher level farming helping you with LEMs-- I do the same thing myself, and I will continue to do so :).
Sorry, Im not following the trade problem. Is he selling at RSS or through the trade thing people talk about ? If its RSS thats free grabs for anyone that happens to come by your stand at the same time your trading this has happen to me more then once so we started putting one silly item in the RSS to let each other know we are there and then we bought the silly item so we saw each others name and were totally sure it was us. Worked for us., not 100% perfect pretty close.
All trading is done via the RSS. If you mean the trading thread, you set up the trade here or on kik and go to the RSS as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by buggles