Engineering FAQ and HOWTO

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May 14th, 2016
kaboler

Engineering FAQ and HOWTO

Definitions and explanations:

Engineering is about winning clan wars before the war begins. We are talking about trying to get easy matches, or complete, disgusting mismatches.

Engineered clan: this is a clan that has come together to make a point of having many engineered accounts. An engineered account in a regular clan is simply called "rushed".

How matching works:

Nobody knows the formula about how matching works, but consider what we know. They try to match clans against similar clans. How they do it is a mystery, and it is probably more complex you think, but we usually start with total defence vs total defence.

Most engineering involves total defence.

Starting point:

Let us consider a 40vs40 war. With 2 attacks each active player, you only really need 20 actives. Ideally, you could have 20 actives and 20 "blanks" (th3, lvl1 cannon, no upgrades) and win a war, if everyone attacks.

You will see many clans with "blanks" appearing at the bottom of their clans. This, however, will not completely fool the matchmaking system Clash has; you are likely to be matched up against either a clan with half noobs (an easy win!) or another clan the same as yours. But it will make your clan look weaker than it is, and you will get easier matchups!

Engineering accounts:

Mortars. You know they don't do much damage. They often miss. And they defensively account for a lot of your total. Do you need them? No! Do you need wizard towers? Not really. Some traps? These are all questions a person with an engineered account will ask.

All defences are roughly equal, except the ones below, which are costly when it comes to your clan strength for matching, in increasing value:

Mortars, wizard towers, xbows, inferno towers, eagle artillerys.

Consider that many th9s will get xbows last. There is a reason! You will have to learn about "war weight" but the basic premise is if you have xbows, or inferno towers, your matchups get harder.

If you choose to select only some of the defences offered, while maxing your offensive capabilities, you are truly engineered!

Defenseless accounts: the extreme engineer!

You have seen these! Level 1 cannon, nothing else, and heavy troops. They will be in position 12 of the enemy and 3 star your 6,7. Worth it? No, wars are decided by 2 things: top 3 players, and spare attacks for using at the top.

If you have 3 starred the entire enemy clan up to 1,2,3, and your top 3 players have 6 attacks, you are in fine shape indeed! How you get those attacks is by having superior firepower, crushing your enemy all the way up to the top. You give up 3 easy stars to hit high, good trade!!

Offensive troop engineering:

Consider 2 facts. We don't know the formula, and what the future holds. Will offensive troops be heavier next update? Probably. Or not. How important is offensive weight now? Some say little. I say some. Consider not researching troops you don't need. Dragons and pekkas? Th8 strategy. They end at th8. Do you need max goblins? Or balloons? How about dark troops?

in summation, engineering an account is about choosing what is important, and what is not important, to get and edge over someone who maxes their accounts because the herd does that. Are you in the herd of sheep, or are you the wolf? But it takes an engineered clan to be part of a wolf pack, wolves do not hunt alone.

And the beauty of it? Winning is fun! Every clan is becoming engineered, at the price of the sheep clans.
May 14th, 2016
kaboler

Please post if anything here needs clarifying.
May 14th, 2016
VeeBirds

I think everything you said is correct as far as my knowledge goes.

One point I'd like to make is that engineered bases should also hold their weight defensively. This is why I'm not a fan of defenseless or "mini max".
As an example, the last engineered clan we met had 3 TH8s that looked the same, TH5 layout with everything at TH8 max level. This meant they had one AD. They were ranked above their TH7s. What's the point of such villages? They all got wiped first try by our TH7s. And their attacks didnt mean much since the tops were a TH10 and few 9s on both side. I'd give a 6/10 for the effort but a 3/10 for the effect.
Now a look on my own semi legit semi engineered TH8. It weights still under most TH8s and over any TH7 however it has 3 ADs (last one going to max TH8 rn). All my splash is lv1 and my walls are mostly pink so I lose points on that but as you said, splash doesnt matter in war. Walls mostly doesn't matter for my base's purpose (stop any dragon attack). For this very reason my cannons are also pretty underleveled

Who won the war? Well they did XD but we could easily tie (2* on TH10 3* on everything else) if we had more skills lol

TLDR best engineered base should have the lowest def weight you can to counter the highest attack you can, and the lowest off weight you can to hit the highest weight you can
TLDR2 if your engineered base can get 3*d by lower THs it sucks
May 14th, 2016
kaboler

Plus, defenseless will probably, over a long enough timeline, be rendered useless in some form or another!
May 14th, 2016
VeeBirds

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaboler

Plus, defenseless will probably, over a long enough timeline, be rendered useless in some form or another!

Agreed. IMO they were pretty useless in the lasy weighting system. They got buffed a little now but still. I only see them useful when they're higher TH than any other base on the field. But then again opponent could easily tie unless you hope they dont know how to play
May 14th, 2016
MrLeeGrahamNord

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaboler

Please post if anything here needs clarifying.

It needs to be deleted.

... All your "engineering" suggestions concern only th8- ranges. And the truth is - it is easy to win at that range even without any engineering at all. Just need to play the game for the second time and have some experience. You match noobs and beat them but it means not that much to normal war clans neither you affect them with your "strategy". My words can be easily backed by the facts that TOP BTM, FostertheCore, super bear etc. etc. had huge 100-150+ win streaks with regular max th8, th7 accounts - without any engineering.

I would watch how you were going to defend against max th9s without xbows or wizard towers on the other hand...
May 15th, 2016
james14

The only thing I disagree with is the notion that you need to have some defense and that defenseless has no place. In a clan running th8-11 anything from 8 and below is a wash. You could throw in a th6 and still have it match against an 8. I will gladly give up an "easy" 3-star down there when that same base can mass drag for 3-stars on a high 9 or 2-star a 10. Oddly enough in a recent war our 3 engineered bases (none completely defenseless) took 8 enemy attacks to 3-star. Add up the attacks on our 3 other th8 and they needed 14 attacks to clear those 6 bases. In a 20v20 that's huge.
They tried to complain, as many do here, that they were mismatched but when your #4 who is a max th9 needs to hit a near defenseless th10 at the bottom of the map you have other problems. They even 3-starred our only full 10 and 2-starred our max 11. In the end they ran out of attacks on our 9s and we wiped all of theirs. Game over.
May 15th, 2016
blombardo

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaboler

Definitions and explanations:

Nobody knows the formula about how matching works, but consider what we know.

Defenseless accounts: the extreme engineer!

And the beauty of it? Winning is fun! Every clan is becoming engineered, at the price of the sheep clans.

Good post. - I know much more than others about this topic. here is some stuff for you to read:

Every possible way a player could choose to upgrade; pros and cons of each choice:
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...64#post5766864

Learn all about war Weight post th11 update:
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...88#post6280488
May 15th, 2016
DisconnectedFromServer

I see a lot of half truths in your OP.

Some stuff is flat out false like the below part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaboler

Definitions and explanations:

Engineering is about winning clan wars before the war begins. We are talking about trying to get easy matches, or complete, disgusting mismatches.

Are you not the guy from the other day with the clan full of mixed/very low town halls bragging about his win streak?

Technically speaking I suppose one could call what you do engineering. However to hold it up as THE example of engineering is insulting to proper engineers.

For example it is also possible to engineer your TH11 to defend against other TH11's while still shaving off a lot of weight. Doing so would mean mini-maxing some of the defenses you said not to build at all. What you said in the OP works for your engineering because you are engineering at the beginner town hall levels only which IMO is as pointless as using mods for low levels where 3 staring is a cake walk.

The benefit of engineering a TH11 for reduced weight while still being able to defend against th10's and many 11's would be in a mixed clan like mine where the nearest town hall to my 11 is a max 9. This is to prevent matching against a 11 plus a couple 10's who would in turn crush our 9's. Its a strategy to allow the rest of the clan to catch up.

Also I find it a bit disgusting that you feel the need to taunt and call names at the end of the OP. What are you 12?
May 15th, 2016
DisconnectedFromServer

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLeeGrahamNord

It needs to be deleted.

... All your "engineering" suggestions concern only th8- ranges. And the truth is - it is easy to win at that range even without any engineering at all. Just need to play the game for the second time and have some experience. You match noobs and beat them but it means not that much to normal war clans neither you affect them with your "strategy". My words can be easily backed by the facts that TOP BTM, FostertheCore, super bear etc. etc. had huge 100-150+ win streaks with regular max th8, th7 accounts - without any engineering.

I would watch how you were going to defend against max th9s without xbows or wizard towers on the other hand...

exactly

someone beat me to it, good show.
May 15th, 2016
blombardo

I feel obligated to correct some of your mistakes -

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLeeGrahamNord

It needs to be deleted.

... All your "engineering" suggestions concern only th8- ranges. And the truth is - it is easy to win at that range even without any engineering at all. Just need to play the game for the second time and have some experience. You match noobs and beat them but it means not that much to normal war clans neither you affect them with your "strategy". My words can be easily backed by the facts that TOP BTM, FostertheCore, super bear etc. etc. had huge 100-150+ win streaks with regular max th8, th7 accounts - without any engineering.

I would watch how you were going to defend against max th9s without xbows or wizard towers on the other hand...

FIRST mistake --
-Enginering works up to max players in level 11 clans that have 100% max th11's in their clan... throw in a few defenseless with max troops on bottom - and suddenly your max th11 at #1 gets a mirror on the enemy #1 spot who is a mid th10 -- who has 20/20 heroes and no chance to 3 star your max 40/40/20 base...

Second mistake -- 'easy to win at that range' --

No... I've run a low level clan for over a year... anytime we hit an engineered war clan- who stacks the bottom with 30 or more th3's - that means their top 2 or 3 players are town hall 9 or 10 with impossibly hard to kill bases for our own side to clear... (now of course - we hav our own really strong th9's and 10's engineered to clear them...)

I spent time in FosterTheCore -- they do not engineer accounts - but their entire clan is 'engineered' in the sense that its all town hall 3 and 4 -- maybe ONE or TWO th6 or 7's on top as a co lead on and off again... Their entire clan war process from day 1 has always been - micro wars - most of their members are lousy bad attackers who dont speak a common language - they have an insane # of skipped and missed attacks - and only won so many wars because their leaders and core members - were th3 and 4... and active... vs a bunch of 'sheep' - 115 wars they had before their first losss... now they are around 260 with 3 losses total i think...

That clan did so well because of a handful of its core leaders; who now - are mostly afk from the game.

TOP BTM - I also follow - they did great.. 255 wins in a row - before their first loss a couple weeks ago... I know they dont go out of their way to use engineered accounts - but they do not turn them away either (I had one there)

Super Bear; heard of.. never visited- cant say anything about them.

Engineering a Clan to win a war -- is more than just getting a defenseless base or two in the bottom... its about matching the top defenders in your clan - to other accounts that have the ability to 3 star 20k or more higher than the top weighed account on your own side... you need heavy hitters - and a clan full of a variety of accounts.. No clan - with 100% of one style account will ever win a war against an engineered clan...

Use the defenseless - minimax- and heavy defenders - as needed and mixed in and around all the 'normal' sheep style players who can perform... then- you have a solid clan...

DONT use the engineered accounts AT ALL -- and you WILL - eventually - loose to one of those engineered clans.. because they set you up to fail from the moment they clicked 'begin search'
May 15th, 2016
kaboler

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisconnectedFromServer

I see a lot of half truths in your OP.

Some stuff is flat out false like the below part.

Are you not the guy from the other day with the clan full of mixed/very low town halls bragging about his win streak?

Technically speaking I suppose one could call what you do engineering. However to hold it up as THE example of engineering is insulting to proper engineers.

For example it is also possible to engineer your TH11 to defend against other TH11's while still shaving off a lot of weight. Doing so would mean mini-maxing some of the defenses you said not to build at all. What you said in the OP works for your engineering because you are engineering at the beginner town hall levels only which IMO is as pointless as using mods for low levels where 3 staring is a cake walk.

The benefit of engineering a TH11 for reduced weight while still being able to defend against th10's and many 11's would be in a mixed clan like mine where the nearest town hall to my 11 is a max 9. This is to prevent matching against a 11 plus a couple 10's who would in turn crush our 9's. Its a strategy to allow the rest of the clan to catch up.

Also I find it a bit disgusting that you feel the need to taunt and call names at the end of the OP. What are you 12?

So picking and choosing defences will find you easier matchups, is that what you're saying?
May 15th, 2016
kaboler

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLeeGrahamNord

It needs to be deleted.

I would watch how you were going to defend against max th9s without xbows or wizard towers on the other hand...

Delete it? So you disagree with my belief that reducing defensive strength can get you easier matchups?

A number 1 engineered th9 would probably match against a th7 or maybe 8. Happens to me all the time.
May 15th, 2016
kaboler

Thanks for the links and the help blombardo, I feel I have made some enemies.
May 15th, 2016
MrLeeGrahamNord

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaboler

Delete it? So you disagree with my belief that reducing defensive strength can get you easier matchups?

A number 1 engineered th9 would probably match against a th7 or maybe 8. Happens to me all the time.

I don't disagree. I just say it is not necessary to win a lot at that range. And at high range, where experienced players residing, - it won't really work. And you should delete it because advertising these things will increase frustration for new players, who will probably quit the game before they reach high levels and it is bad for the war community overall - as less players - more mismatches and longer searches.

No doubts your th9 matches th7 or 8. But personally I don't see any achievement here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blombardo

FIRST mistake --
-Enginering works up to max players in level 11 clans that have 100% max th11's in their clan... throw in a few defenseless with max troops on bottom - and suddenly your max th11 at #1 gets a mirror on the enemy #1 spot who is a mid th10 -- who has 20/20 heroes and no chance to 3 star your max 40/40/20 base...

Use the defenseless - minimax- and heavy defenders - as needed and mixed in and around all the 'normal' sheep style players who can perform... then- you have a solid clan...

Your first point is not correct - while in one war it may happen - in another it will be matched with max th11 as well - and then only skill will matter. Also such match in your example can happen and without any defenseless accounts. Look top win streak clans right now with high level accounts only - who of these use any engineering?

Use your defenseless or minimax accounts and you will eventually get a mismatch that you will not be able to win too.
May 15th, 2016
kaboler

we will see, won't we?

obviously trophy pushing clans need 50 top trophy players.

we will start looking at the high win streak clans with high level players, and see if changes will occur. Youre saying it doesn't. I'm saying you'll see clans in motion towards engineering. We will see.
May 15th, 2016
TangoFever

Quote:

Originally Posted by blombardo

FIRST mistake --
TOP BTM - I also follow - they did great.. 255 wins in a row - before their first loss a couple weeks ago... I know they dont go out of their way to use engineered accounts - but they do not turn them away either (I had one there)

Topbtm had 255 undefeated streak, not wins. They had a tie at around 130 win mark, and the first loss on the 256th war. Overall very impressive.

However, with the new match making by recent record, these kind of long streaks will be less likely (for these clans low level bases). For instance, super bears lost its near 100 wins streak to TopBTM, who then lost its long wins streak a few wars later.
May 15th, 2016
VeeBirds

No reason to avoid spreading basic knowledge
There are already plenty of "engineered" clans around, although most just go hard on defenseless and alikes.
They're pretty common if you run obnoxious war rosters and have decent war log

Latest match http://imgur.com/a/ZiHtq
May 15th, 2016
AgentO

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaboler

Delete it? So you disagree with my belief that reducing defensive strength can get you easier matchups?.

It may just be me, but this sentence bothers. Since the mods have been cracked down on we have seen a lot more engineered clans. People go to long lengths to avoid even matches it seems (and no I am not saying engineering is cheating). Hope they find a way to get these types of clans to just face each other.
May 15th, 2016
dragonlordcoc

This is a very funny discussion, yet It gave me none of the info I wanted.
I just wanted to find out about engineered bases and how they win. But now of the engineered stratagies seem like they would work...

Anyways, as a rushed townhall 9, I get matched against 8s lots anyways- no need to engineer.
May 15th, 2016
TangoFever

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgentO

It may just be me, but this sentence bothers. Since the mods have been cracked down on we have seen a lot more engineered clans. People go to long lengths to avoid even matches it seems (and no I am not saying engineering is cheating). Hope they find a way to get these types of clans to just face each other.

There is very simple explanation for this. First of all, I assume your clan has a good record. Engineer clans tend to have members who are experienced, with good attacking skill and with good knowledge about the game (whether they really know about base engineering is a matter of debate though). Therefore these clans tend to win a lot and thus, it is just the result of new match making that takes into account recent war records.

I don't recall meeting any engineer clan for the first 200 wars, but lately, it seems that a quarter of our wars are against clans that are engineered one way or another.
May 15th, 2016
VeeBirds

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonlordcoc

I just wanted to find out about engineered bases and how they win. But now of the engineered stratagies seem like they would work...

They win because their weight is much lower than what they can hit, and they can soak up attacks (at least they should).
Again, this is why Im not a fan of defenseless, as they cant soak up any attack. They base their winning on opponent's underskill
May 15th, 2016
AgentO

Quote:

Originally Posted by TangoFever

There is very simple explanation for this. First of all, I assume your clan has a good record. Engineer clans tend to have members who are experienced, with good attacking skill and with good knowledge about the game (whether they really know about base engineering is a matter of debate though). Therefore these clans tend to win a lot and thus, it is just the result of new match making that takes into account recent war records.

I don't recall meeting any engineer clan for the first 200 wars, but lately, it seems that a quarter of our wars are against clans that are engineered one way or another.

I think you are being overly nice to the new engineered clans. I do think the early ones did it to see what would happen and try something new (though some may have used bots to get their base). I think the recent increase in engineered clans directly relates to the crack down on mods. Modders like to have a starting advantage over their opponents and have co-opted the engineering community to do it.
May 15th, 2016
orangemojo

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgentO

I think you are being overly nice to the new engineered clans. I do think the early ones did it to see what would happen and try something new (though some may have used bots to get their base). I think the recent increase in engineered clans directly relates to the crack down on mods. Modders like to have a starting advantage over their opponents and have co-opted the engineering community to do it.

so now that mods are gone, ex modders now suddenly have instant engineered clans?

engineered clans have been around for years, but people are just noticing them more
May 16th, 2016
kaboler

This is just a HOWTO guys.
May 16th, 2016
Spavel

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaboler

This is just a HOWTO guys.

No it is not.
May 16th, 2016
blombardo

How to engineer a clan war that will be a guaranteed win for you -up front.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLeeGrahamNord

Use your defenseless or minimax accounts and you will eventually get a mismatch that you will not be able to win too.

(Only if the enemy clan engineers lighter weight - higher attack power accounts than your clan has... that the only way you will fail due to a mis match)

It's quite simple - really... If you engineer your account to be a certain weight - that brings a specific mirror (say a town hall8 mirror) --

knowing that a town hall 8 has 200 camps/ 25 castle and level 3 dragons -- means that your Engineered th9 or th10 account must have air defenses that can defend against that town hall 8. -- Now you have made it impossible for the th8 to use dragons to 3 star you; whille you can easily 3 star him..

That just leaves the Gowipe and Hog attacks... -- engineer your weight so that you can defend against the max th8 research- at all army compositions - and insure that -when matched in war -- your th9/10 hybrid will be on top - with an enemy th8 mirror -- you have guaranteed that the enemy can't possibly win the war.

it is relatively easy to balance the defensive levels of your base - with a variety of small tweaks to make it so that you can become un beatable - in a 'fair' evenly weighted match.

Then the only time you loose - or even TIE - is when the enemy clan engineers their accounts better than you did.

at 55k weight and below - engineering is pretty easy. Above that - at the th9/10 and 11 points it is far more complicated due to a variety of things (hero levels especially)

We engineer our clans to completely avoid any chance of the enemy having any th9 bases in their clan. - we do this by keeping a lot of low weight accounts in our clan - so the combined weight of all 50 players will -hardly ever- be able to bring the 60k+ weight of th9's on top of the enemy war clan.

If the enemy doesnt have 220camps 30castle - extra spells - and higher research - then they simply will never beat us.

This is how engineering a clan war is done - for low levels at least.

for th9 and up; its much trickier and I can't help you there... other than to take the general principles I described in this post and expand it.
May 16th, 2016
MrLeeGrahamNord

Quote:

Originally Posted by blombardo

(Only if the enemy clan engineers lighter weight - higher attack power accounts than your clan has... that the only way you will fail due to a mis match)

It's quite simple - really... If you engineer your account to be a certain weight - that brings a specific mirror (say a town hall8 mirror) --

knowing that a town hall 8 has 200 camps/ 25 castle and level 3 dragons -- means that your Engineered th9 or th10 account must have air defenses that can defend against that town hall 8. -- Now you have made it impossible for the th8 to use dragons to 3 star you; whille you can easily 3 star him..

That just leaves the Gowipe and Hog attacks... -- engineer your weight so that you can defend against the max th8 research- at all army compositions - and insure that -when matched in war -- your th9/10 hybrid will be on top - with an enemy th8 mirror -- you have guaranteed that the enemy can't possibly win the war.

it is relatively easy to balance the defensive levels of your base - with a variety of small tweaks to make it so that you can become un beatable - in a 'fair' evenly weighted match.

Then the only time you loose - or even TIE - is when the enemy clan engineers their accounts better than you did.

at 55k weight and below - engineering is pretty easy. Above that - at the th9/10 and 11 points it is far more complicated due to a variety of things (hero levels especially)

We engineer our clans to completely avoid any chance of the enemy having any th9 bases in their clan. - we do this by keeping a lot of low weight accounts in our clan - so the combined weight of all 50 players will -hardly ever- be able to bring the 60k+ weight of th9's on top of the enemy war clan.

If the enemy doesnt have 220camps 30castle - extra spells - and higher research - then they simply will never beat us.

This is how engineering a clan war is done - for low levels at least.

for th9 and up; its much trickier and I can't help you there... other than to take the general principles I described in this post and expand it.

why do you have win streak of 11 only if you are unbeatable lol?
May 16th, 2016
adrock

IMO the fact that engineering works at all just means that SC has the matchups weighted poorly. Its been an issue since wars first came out, SC has claimed to have fixed it many times over the years, but its clearly not balanced if people can engineer an advantage.
May 16th, 2016
orangemojo

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLeeGrahamNord

why do you have win streak of 11 only if you are unbeatable lol?

because they arent.

this just shows that engineered clans can be beat by other skilled players.

it all boils down to skill. no amount of engineering can cover up for bad attacks
May 17th, 2016
james14

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrock

IMO the fact that engineering works at all just means that SC has the matchups weighted poorly. Its been an issue since wars first came out, SC has claimed to have fixed it many times over the years, but its clearly not balanced if people can engineer an advantage.

The only way for engineering not to work would be to make all bases the same or have insanely long search times because they have to match every base exact. Either situation would ACTUALLY ruin wars.
May 17th, 2016
blombardo

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLeeGrahamNord

why do you have win streak of 11 only if you are unbeatable lol?

I love trolls;

Because- a Perfect vs Perfect war - equals a TIE.. because both clans have 100% total destruction.

a TIE is not a WIN - therefore supercell resets the win number to zero.

-THATS why.
Look at our clan war log; photos are posted all over this forum;and on our website. Took us a while to learn how to engineer wars -- now we have nothing but 100% perfects every time.

No clan is Un beatable - top BTM had 255 wins - undefeated for nearly 2 full years... they lost -- everyone looses sometimes... to other clans that engineer bettter.

It has very little to do with skill in game - and very much more to do with skill in careful planning; picking and choosing upgrades with a purpose. a player with no skill - and a very carefully designed hybrid or defenseless base can easily win every war - by spamming Barch troops at the enemy base 10 higher than himself...

Yes sometimes - on the top- skill wins or looses a war... (see our most recent win - perfect #27 in row ) the enemy leaders on top attacked poorly - they did not match our perfect score... so they lost. they COULD have tied; but sometimes-with proper engineering a clan simply has no chance at all.

Our current match - the enemy has zero chance on earth to win. None at all - impossible to the extreme. we have engineered our war very well; our top bases are much stronger and can easily defend against the enemys weak top players... (their fault for not upgrading their offense before defense) No amount of skill will allow their strongest players level 2 dragons to clear a fully developed th8.5 hybrid account; with level 7 air defenses... they cant possibly get a perfect on us -- so they will loose...
May 17th, 2016
SinOfDusk

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrock

IMO the fact that engineering works at all just means that SC has the matchups weighted poorly. Its been an issue since wars first came out, SC has claimed to have fixed it many times over the years, but its clearly not balanced if people can engineer an advantage.

Like someone said below, the only way to negate engineering is to make every base the same. I've suggested before that everyone would be able to freely upgrade their base in farming. But in war, your base would be weighed and rounded down to the nearest 5k and given a default base of that weight.

Eg. Your farming base weighs 63k, so your war base would be given a 60k weight with troops, heroes, walls and defenses of a 60k weight. Every single 60k weight base in war would be EXACTLY the same. Then the mm would search to ensure that every single weight in every single base is exactly the same across the board for every single war.

Anything short of this would ensure that us engineers find a way to exploit it and turn it against blind maxers
May 17th, 2016
TangoFever

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangemojo

because they arent.

this just shows that engineered clans can be beat by other skilled players.

it all boils down to skill. no amount of engineering can cover up for bad attacks

Such a sensible comment but somehow it will be drown by the sea of ignorant complaints ...
May 17th, 2016
TangoFever

Quote:

Originally Posted by blombardo

I love trolls;

Because- a Perfect vs Perfect war - equals a TIE.. because both clans have 100% total destruction.

a TIE is not a WIN - therefore supercell resets the win number to zero.

-THATS why.
Look at our clan war log; photos are posted all over this forum;and on our website. Took us a while to learn how to engineer wars -- now we have nothing but 100% perfects every time.

No clan is Un beatable - top BTM had 255 wins - undefeated for nearly 2 full years... they lost -- everyone looses sometimes... to other clans that engineer bettter.

It has very little to do with skill in game - and very much more to do with skill in careful planning; picking and choosing upgrades with a purpose. a player with no skill - and a very carefully designed hybrid or defenseless base can easily win every war - by spamming Barch troops at the enemy base 10 higher than himself...

Yes sometimes - on the top- skill wins or looses a war... (see our most recent win - perfect #27 in row ) the enemy leaders on top attacked poorly - they did not match our perfect score... so they lost. they COULD have tied; but sometimes-with proper engineering a clan simply has no chance at all.

Our current match - the enemy has zero chance on earth to win. None at all - impossible to the extreme. we have engineered our war very well; our top bases are much stronger and can easily defend against the enemys weak top players... (their fault for not upgrading their offense before defense) No amount of skill will allow their strongest players level 2 dragons to clear a fully developed th8.5 hybrid account; with level 7 air defenses... they cant possibly get a perfect on us -- so they will loose...

It seems to me that you are using a tie as an excuse. No sir, there is nothing to brag about a tie, even when it was a perfect war. Your clan was just not good at defending, which, let me remind you, is half of the equation.
So yeah, there is not much to write mom with only 11 wins streak. By the way, your clan also has 7 losses, so not really unbeatable as you may think.
May 17th, 2016
dansta31

Guys it's best to not feed the delusional troll here. Let's all carry on with our lives.
May 18th, 2016
blombardo

Quote:

Originally Posted by TangoFever

It seems to me that you are using a tie as an excuse. No sir, there is nothing to brag about a tie, even when it was a perfect war. Your clan was just not good at defending, which, let me remind you, is half of the equation.
So yeah, there is not much to write mom with only 11 wins streak. By the way, your clan also has 7 losses, so not really unbeatable as you may think.

I feed trolls when I have spare time;

7 losses - yes -- but only one was truly a loss based on our own mistakes ; we recruited too many in one war and had some skippers... never happened again. - and the other 6? all lost to mis matched engineered clans that got a perfect on us and we couldn't match it... No shame there.

-And of course I didn't realize you could engineer accounts - or entire clan wars until about our 5th loss.. then we started adjusting our bases to compensate. These past 28 perfect wars have shown us that our engineering is working -- we can score perfects every time now... and I don't expect that to change...

As far as TIES... -- Well that too can be fixed. now that we have secured our ability to get a perfect every time -- we can tweak our defenses a bit more... higher air def- higher walls.. easiest way to get extra defensive ability for low weight... In time there will be very few - if any- clans that will be able to tie our accounts once we have engineered them just right.

The few times we were given tie wars -- were during those wars where we were out matched by other engineered clans... as we improve our engineering to avoid those type of matches - we will also avoid future ties. If you think about it -- the previous losses we suffered were from these exact type of match ups.. but NOW? -- we dont loose them anymore.. NOW we tie them. -- So if you extrapolate our results to an easy to see conclusion; in time we will also be able to avoid TIES as well as losses.

My clan is a work in progress; as are most other clans in this game. I'm not an idiot who is saying that we are unbeatable -- but at this point -only an engineered clan with more time in the game will be able to beat us.

/slap at the troll again. - go on.. say something else ♥♥♥♥... I'll just keep proving you wrong.

+Long live all the engineered clans... give us a challenge to beat; lol
May 18th, 2016
TangoFever

Quote:

Originally Posted by blombardo

I feed trolls when I have spare time;

7 losses - yes -- but only one was truly a loss based on our own mistakes ; we recruited too many in one war and had some skippers... never happened again. - and the other 6? all lost to mis matched engineered clans that got a perfect on us and we couldn't match it... No shame there.

-And of course I didn't realize you could engineer accounts - or entire clan wars until about our 5th loss.. then we started adjusting our bases to compensate. These past 28 perfect wars have shown us that our engineering is working -- we can score perfects every time now... and I don't expect that to change...

As far as TIES... -- Well that too can be fixed. now that we have secured our ability to get a perfect every time -- we can tweak our defenses a bit more... higher air def- higher walls.. easiest way to get extra defensive ability for low weight... In time there will be very few - if any- clans that will be able to tie our accounts once we have engineered them just right.

The few times we were given tie wars -- were during those wars where we were out matched by other engineered clans... as we improve our engineering to avoid those type of matches - we will also avoid future ties. If you think about it -- the previous losses we suffered were from these exact type of match ups.. but NOW? -- we dont loose them anymore.. NOW we tie them. -- So if you extrapolate our results to an easy to see conclusion; in time we will also be able to avoid TIES as well as losses.

My clan is a work in progress; as are most other clans in this game. I'm not an idiot who is saying that we are unbeatable -- but at this point -only an engineered clan with more time in the game will be able to beat us.

/slap at the troll again. - go on.. say something else ♥♥♥♥... I'll just keep proving you wrong.

+Long live all the engineered clans... give us a challenge to beat; lol

It is interesting that we find this on your recruitment thread:

*****
NG (Level 9 perks) Stats 5-4-16
Wins: 124
Losses (due to player error): 1
Losses (due to mis-matched war): 6
Ties: 3
Best win Streak:56 in a row
Wars since our last loss: 22
Max stars / Perfect:66
Almost Max (within 5
of perfect):59

NG2 Level 6 Perks- Stats: 5-4-16
Wins: 55
Losses (due to player error): 6
Losses (due to mis-matched war): 3
Losses (due to Tie game percentage): 2
Ties: 2
Best win Streak:12 in a row
Wars since last loss: 17
Max stars / Perfect:19
Almost Max (within 5 of perfect): 35

*****

-Disclosing your clan's war record while adding reasons for the losses: due to mismatches (and other excuses), yet not mentioning your wins due to mismatches in your favor....
-Putting down meaningless stats such as ''almost'' perfect score because you got to within 5 stars of the possible max....

Anyway, just ''interesting'' stuff that normally does not figure on recruitment threads of serious clans...
May 18th, 2016
logos

Quote:

Originally Posted by blombardo

I love trolls;

Because- a Perfect vs Perfect war - equals a TIE.. because both clans have 100% total destruction.

a TIE is not a WIN - therefore supercell resets the win number to zero.

-THATS why.
Look at our clan war log; photos are posted all over this forum;and on our website. Took us a while to learn how to engineer wars -- now we have nothing but 100% perfects every time.

No clan is Un beatable - top BTM had 255 wins - undefeated for nearly 2 full years... they lost -- everyone looses sometimes... to other clans that engineer bettter.

It has very little to do with skill in game - and very much more to do with skill in careful planning; picking and choosing upgrades with a purpose. a player with no skill - and a very carefully designed hybrid or defenseless base can easily win every war - by spamming Barch troops at the enemy base 10 higher than himself...

Yes sometimes - on the top- skill wins or looses a war... (see our most recent win - perfect #27 in row ) the enemy leaders on top attacked poorly - they did not match our perfect score... so they lost. they COULD have tied; but sometimes-with proper engineering a clan simply has no chance at all.

Our current match - the enemy has zero chance on earth to win. None at all - impossible to the extreme. we have engineered our war very well; our top bases are much stronger and can easily defend against the enemys weak top players... (their fault for not upgrading their offense before defense) No amount of skill will allow their strongest players level 2 dragons to clear a fully developed th8.5 hybrid account; with level 7 air defenses... they cant possibly get a perfect on us -- so they will loose...

That's really calling the wrong person a troll.

He's actually contributed good things to the war community.

he also is known to be in a fairly good war clan so it's not like he's not knowledgeable in the game.

Even if you don't agree with his point, insulting him just makes you look bad.
May 18th, 2016
dansta31

Tango I would just let it go. He clearly is a big troll and feeding him only makes him more oblivious.

The funny part is his comment of "long live all the engineered clans... Give us a challenge to beat". I am sure you fighting against a bunch of Th6s is your definition of a challenge so do keep playing at your level and we will all just play at something more realistic and yes challenging.

Like I said in some of the other threads, what you do is fine and it is smart for the easy win / easy stomps but don't go on and on about how big of an accomplishment it is or how you guys are so skilled, because at that level of warring you aren't doing anything challenging.

Oh and love the excuses for the losses BTW, I guess in your mindset you never really loss....
May 19th, 2016
blombardo

This topic is supposed to be related to Engineering FAQ and How to;

I'm not sure why a few of you are attempting to hijack this with stupid arguments about simple facts... The facts are simple.

Engineering an account - requires a very unique mindset. It requires using a little math- a lot of in game knowledge; specific to how clans are matched to each other in war.

Engineering an entire CLAN - requires a lot more dedication - from a group of like minded members who ALL work together with that shared knowledge - to build their accounts in a specific way - to do a specific thing.

Any future replies should keep in mind the topic of this discussion... if you wish to have a discussion with me personally I'm more than happy to talk via any chat system you prefer or via PM's- no reason to take this guys topic off the rails.

--In Response to the 3 comments made ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TangoFever

It is interesting that we find this on your recruitment thread:

*****

-Disclosing your clan's war record while adding reasons for the losses: due to mismatches (and other excuses), yet not mentioning your wins due to mismatches in your favor....
-Putting down meaningless stats such as ''almost'' perfect score because you got to within 5 stars of the possible max....

Anyway, just ''interesting'' stuff that normally does not figure on recruitment threads of serious clans...

I will take - and track every possible statistic available to me - and since supercell doesnt build in the ability to do that- - then I will do it myself.

If you dont have good numbers and a solid record of every war- what went wrong with it - why it failled to go in your favor - or why it DID go in your favor - you have no frame of reference on how to adjust your game play to improve things.

Without statistics your just flying blind;

I apologize if I have not listed every war - numerically at the end - to show all the times that we had engineered (mis matched) in our own favor -- HOWEVER-- I guarantee that every time this has happend; it was placed into the narrative of the war summary at the end of the war.

Every one of our wars has been documented with a small narrative... and I could go back - (if I had 3 hours to waste) and figure out just how often we won due to mis matches in our favor; THAT statistic is not important to me - ideally it will end up that way every time we start a war...

The fact that other clans - do not track the various statistics that I have - is one other thing that makes me different...

You should see my clan roster; I could tell you 60 statistics on every player who joined my clan- from a year ago - when they joined, when they got promoted to elder, when they got Co (if they did)- how many wars they were in - how many times they got 6 stars in a war (within 5 of mirror) - their average stars per attack over the life of their account - how many times they missed - went out of range - donated wrong - etc...

Myself; and about 15 other co leads - all track data of all types... Some players like the numbers behind the scenes -- others never bother to look at it and scratch their heads wondering why we do...

When I look at a base - I see numbers... weights - I compare it to a list of armies that we can build - and the average weight that those specific armies at those camp sizes and research levels have the ability to 3 star based on a percentage chance. Thats how I teach our members to pick targets in war...

Its pretty simple if you do the math... some armies - can never possibly clear a specific weight of a base- no matter how well it is deployed...

Quote:

Originally Posted by logos

That's really calling the wrong person a troll.

He's actually contributed good things to the war community.

he also is known to be in a fairly good war clan so it's not like he's not knowledgeable in the game.

Even if you don't agree with his point, insulting him just makes you look bad.

Um... Logos... That dude was wrong - and I called him on it - you can defend him if you want; but your wrong as well.. I didn't insult - I dont care if he's known in any way shape or form -- he was wrong - he targeted me with statements that were not correct -- and I corrected him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansta31

Tango I would just let it go.

Like I said in some of the other threads, what you do is fine and it is smart for the easy win / easy stomps but don't go on and on about how big of an accomplishment it is or how you guys are so skilled, because at that level of warring you aren't doing anything challenging.

Oh and love the excuses for the losses BTW, I guess in your mindset you never really loss....

@Dansta - good advice to Tango -- but regarding your insults towards what I said -- My clan - its members - its war log - and its ability to show a good time to new low level players -- IS a big accomplishment. it is THE only clan on this entire server of 3.1 million clans -- that does what it does; there are NO other clans out there like ours --

If you know of one please tell me...

-Allows day 1 players to join.

-Almost always wins - with a 99% participation rate - and a speed of attacks that has the entire wars concluded in an average of 3 hours for all 150 bases to be cleared

-teaches people how to watch their weight - and the real mechanics behind how clan wars are matched up -- aka how the game REALLY works...
+++ tons of other things.

-Provides an educational environment to teach new people how the game works / 46 steps and brings them into these forums to help improve the community as a whole - and eventually feeds them into big well known clans...

-
For you to come trolling in here attempting to belittle others for achieving things that - you feel - are beneath your own high and mighty skills -- if thats what you must do to feel important; thats a shame.

When I see clans like FosterTheCore-- with its 100% th3 and 4 accounts -- or Savage 3.4 - or any of the other ♥♥♥♥ loads of low weight clans ( including a few that have 75 win streaks that use 2 strong players and 48 weak ones) -- I don't seek them out and belittle them; I dont see any need to accuse them of accomplishing nothing important - because they arent fighting REAL wars... against REAL clans ...

because- they are fighting real wars - against real clans - sure its all low difficulty - sure its not a ton of max weight th11 players going head to head with high trophy counts on the top of the leader boards with a bunch of youtube subscribers watching every war... They are - real - good - clans that do what they do very well...

Every player goes through a learning curve; not everyone knows everything... the fact that many of us have realized that stacking a clan with tons of light weight accounts - gets us easier wars and a potential little bit in our favor - is a nice trick to know... not everyone knows it yet; some take it to a higher level - some take it to extreme levels...

We started as a th3 to 6 only clan; eventually expanded to take all the 7's - now all the 8's - now we are working on the 9's. We all know there are a hundred thousand clans out there with heavier players - higher heroes and bigger badder wars -- but we are attempting to find ways to upgrade - so that we will always be in a position to win with ease. UNLIKE many of the players who go too heavy on defenses - then can't 3 star their mirrors...

There are 3.1 million clans in the game; most are disorganized messes that have nothing special about them... but a small percentage -- has organization - and a specific niche' that is theirs alone; or that maybe a handful of other clans share...

Engineered clans are the smallest of all those niches'.

Now this topic is about Engineered clans -- Not mine specifically. Would be nice if the next replies were related to furthering the topic of how to engineer a clan - and move off of the topic on your opinions of my clan - or my way of playing... simply put-- you have your way-- I have my way -

The attitude I'm seeing from a few of you is...

"I'm right- your wrong - I'm big your little, I win you loose" .. (Matilda; funny movie) = I see you all as a danny davito standing there pointing your fingers at me...

I welcome anyone with constructive comments; or perhaps who know of other engineered clans to speak up...
May 19th, 2016
VeeBirds

Tango is part of the most engineered clan you can think of, I'd take what he says as true despite he comes as a little arrogant sometimes XD
The other forum pro enginer was mr Humbob but his clan called it quits after 135 no draws win streak and he doesn't come here very often. I learned a lot from his posts though

I agree with the above people... if you give excuses for your losses say so for your wins too...
Our last 3 losses were 2 against heavily engineered clans (one of them with a claimed 100+ win streak) and one for an horrible mismatch.. probably the most horrible I've ever witnessed.
Our 30 or so wins inbetween are mostly against lv <5 newb clans who get 30 stars in 50v50 and maybe a handful of them against other engineers. Serious clans don't exist with our composition so it's one thing or the other.

Hence I dont consider our log very impressive

P.s. I see you matched |\|ik@ clan, we matched and beat them too recently.
Maybe we'll match one day
May 19th, 2016
logos

Quote:

Originally Posted by blombardo

Um... Logos... That dude was wrong - and I called him on it - you can defend him if you want; but your wrong as well.. I didn't insult - I dont care if he's known in any way shape or form -- he was wrong - he targeted me with statements that were not correct -- and I corrected him.

Ok first off calling someone a troll is insulting. If you can't recognize that, I mean really!

Second, the guy puts out one of the best calculators to calculate war weight for lots of other people to use. That's not exactly the actions of a "troll". That's someone who actually likes the game and helps other people. So you are simply wrong.

Third I don't think you understand his point. That th8 and under wars don't need the effort. I agree with him on that. It's simply too easy.
He also makes the point that warring at th11 you would never use an engineering base. I agree with him on that too. The TH11 only clan I'm in does not accept people like that, because we know you need to be able to defend. There is no need for "extra" attacks in clan wars that are pretty much straight mod wars anyway. You only put yourself at a disadvantage. His other point was that building a clan floating tons of lower bases to lower your war weight is never going to actually make you "part" of the war community. You can't prove you are the best not taking on anyone hiding in those lower weights.

Lastly, he's asking you to think about what you are saying. He wasn't trolling you, it's a legit question. Why is your war streak so low if you can't lose. And the answer is that building a clan to "not lose" is not the same as building one to WIN. You missed that point.

Your way is one way of doing things, but it's probably not the best way, and frankly isn't really good for a war community that want's to fight it out and show who the best is. This is why we don't war flooding the bottom to alter the clan weight. You can't show you are the best if you can't draw decent clans in a fight.
May 20th, 2016
blombardo

Good info @Vee and @Logos -- but I have to rebut much of what you said...

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeeBirds

Tango is part of the most engineered clan you can think of, I'd take what he says as true despite he comes as a little arrogant sometimes XD
The other forum pro enginer was mr Humbob but his clan called it quits after 135 no draws win streak and he doesn't come here very often. I learned a lot from his posts though

P.s. I see you matched |\|ik@ clan, we matched and beat them too recently.
Maybe we'll match one day

What clan would tango be a part of? - and Mr Humbob? the only reference to that player anywhere here is

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...s-a-little-bit

stating that he left...

--Regarding excuses for the war losses - and wins-- I DO THAT...

I specifically compare our top players - with the enemy top players - every war...and I specifically point out if they were out matched- or if we were out matched- and I specifically mention the facts based on 'if that clan has the skill - research and ability to get a perfect score on its enemy...

I simply dont calculate how many wins we had based on out matches in our favor -- because its only happened a handful of times... just as the losses (6 of them) have been pretty rare... I have better things to do that track tons of statistics - that I think supercell should track automatically... I do what I can-- but I run almost 20 accounts... theres not enough time in the day to handle that many accounts - be active in forums - run 2 clans and co lead a third - while maintaining relations with various other clans in our family AND finding time to help / direct/ teach new people how to do basic things in game...

Forgive me ... but you gotta see my point here ♥♥♥♥... I'm one guy; not a computer. I'm not hiding any info from anyone - and im not trying to imply that we are anything more than what we are. A very successful low level clan that wins almost every war it fights... with speed - and skill. As most players get 6 stars per war once they are trained...

==I'd love to match your clan one day - Love Cheat Love? I'll keep my eyes out.

-Now Logos; omg you said a lot.. and unfortunately I have to respond to it all --

Quote:

Originally Posted by logos

Ok first off calling someone a troll is insulting.

First - yes calling someone a troll is an insult... He insulted me with his comments - I replied with some facts and corrections - that should not have been necessary - especially pointing out that TIES break win streaks but dont necessarily mean a failure-

Quote:

Originally Posted by logos

Second, the guy puts out one of the best calculators to calculate war weight for lots of other people to use.

=Second - I've never heard of this guy before his comments here... so = I've never seen such a calculator by him. Care to link me to it? I have spent close to 80 hours working on my weight thread and I'd love to compare notes if he has info thatI dont.

Quote:

Originally Posted by logos

Third I don't think you understand his point. That th8 and under wars don't need the effort. I agree with him on that. It's simply too easy.

=Third -- Engineering accounts - is needed at every level. TH6 has three air defenses now... Thats very tricky for a new player to take down... unless they go defenseless/ or hybrid engineered build -- and stay with th4 mirrors up through th8 when they unlock level 3 dragons... THEN with their level 3 drags- 200+25 camps and dark spells -- then they can up their weight a bit and easily slaughter those th6 bases... Plus they will be able to clean higher bases if needed...

You may think its not needed - or wise - to do this at low levels - but I'd say keep your weight low - as low as th4 to 6 -- FOREVER.. until you have 40/40 heroes at th10 - then move into 11 with mirrors of th7 and 8... Apparently you and I have different opinions of how to win wars... I've been using ZERO dark elixer in war for half a year... I can Drag Loon / or loonion (little dark) or - god forbid - lavaloons down every th9 below that I come across -- every last drop of dark elixer goes 100% into research and heroes. Sure once in a while I have to make a GoHo style army with max golems max hogs... but meanwhile - every other 'normal' player out there has been using Dark troops -every war - every time since th8.. and probably getting high 2 stars with them - and loosing tons of dark every war (cause lets face it-- you spend 20% more on dark troops than you can ever earn in loot returns... war loot has been broken for a few updates)

So whats better for your account? Easy elixer wars - using 100% of your dark to upgrade your stuff? Or being forced to use dark troops in war (or fail) Personally I never use dark troops - unless I have to... and I won't ever use them unless I have to -- until my heroes and research are 100% max... (about another year at least )

Quote:

Originally Posted by logos

He also makes the point that warring at th11 you would never use an engineering base. I agree with him on that too. The TH11 only clan I'm in does not accept people like that, because we know you need to be able to defend.

WRONG... Engineered accounts win everywhere... I have two th11 accounts that mirror up to max th8 and new th9. Each has mid heroes around 20/25/10 -- each win every war.. because their MIRRORS can not 3 star them... yet they can 3 star much higher up on the map... Max Lava walls slow down everything... Who needs big xbows - infernos and eagles when u ahve a few big heroes -- and a weak mirror...

Quote:

Originally Posted by logos

There is no need for "extra" attacks in clan wars that are pretty much straight mod wars anyway. You only put yourself at a disadvantage.

I dont understand what you mean by mod wars... - but there is ALAWYS a need for Extra attacks -- someone will always mess up and - normally in our wars - we have about 5 to 10 accounts in the end - who have the power to 3 star enemy 1 and 2. That means they can clean up any base on the map.. and because of that- we normally get perfect wars... I never want to run out of attacks / attempts before we have a perfect war...

Quote:

Originally Posted by logos

His other point was that building a clan floating tons of lower bases to lower your war weight is never going to actually make you "part" of the war community. You can't prove you are the best not taking on anyone hiding in those lower weights.

So - If you have a brand new Dodge Dart - you fixed it up - tuned it for speed; modified your exhaust , intake etc... -- your saying it will never be a part of the 'racing community' because its not a million dollar super fact elite race car? It cant be the best because its hiding down there in the low speed races...?

NO.. your wrong -- its just a DIFFERENT LEAGUE... nightmareGuild -- and many other clans out there-- are attempting to do the same exact thing that your 'best' war clans are doing... we are just newer players - lower levels - weaker heroes and newer to the community. I built my clan because I wanted to experience a fast paced - hardcore war clan where everyone in the clan was serious about the game- serious about winning - serious about getting perfect scores every war and getting faster times every week. Check back in 2 or 3 years when we are all max level players with big strong accounts - then maybe you will stop looking down your nose at us... but you really can't compare our clans to max th11 style players... its just not going to be possible for a long time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by logos

Lastly, he's asking you to think about what you are saying. He wasn't trolling you, it's a legit question. Why is your war streak so low if you can't lose. And the answer is that building a clan to "not lose" is not the same as building one to WIN. You missed that point.

As I explained to him - TIES break war win streaks - as do the handful of losses we have suffered (before) we engineered ourselves to avoid those losses. as a purely town hall 3 to 7 clan we had a 56 win streak - quite respectable; about 300 clans have that currently... as we expanded into th8/9 and 10 we suffered a handful of losses -- growing pains - out matched - etc. WE DID NOT LEARN how to manage war weights until a few months ago. now all of our accounts are being engineered to win - and now instead of 'loosing' wars after every 10 to 15 wins -- now we get TIES every 10 to 15 wins... and - soon - we will build our defenses up to a point where the enemy will no longer tie us.-- its a work in progress and we are about 75% of the way to being un beatable. At worst - with a bad mis match -against an engineered clan that does it better than us -- (soon) it will be a TIE at worst... Kind of hard to guarantee those results when our best accounts are barely 10/10 on the hero scale in our average wars... once they are 25/25 - things will be a lot different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by logos

Your way is one way of doing things, but it's probably not the best way, and frankly isn't really good for a war community that want's to fight it out and show who the best is.

I want to win wars - and I want to win them FAST. Those are the two things that interest me. Being the clan that can clear 150 stars on a map - faster than any other clan -- is a goal that we can reach... its a goal that any clan - of any level can reach - because that goal doesnt require having a 3 year old account with max everythings... it requires a clan full of players who log in when the war starts - donate to each other - and play together - at the same time - in a big fun busy group... Then after a few hours the clan is a ghost town again and we all go back to real life...

Quote:

Originally Posted by logos

This is why we don't war flooding the bottom to alter the clan weight. You can't show you are the best if you can't draw decent clans in a fight.

There is that word BEST again... You kknow - 'BEST' is a word that really needs clarification...

BEST farming clan?
Best donating
Best pushing
Best WAR (*Add ten more variables to describe different types of war clans)
Best low level war clan
best mid level war clan
best end game war clan
best 'ambush / fast paced' war clan (cant say Ambush apparently it has dual meanings)
and of course - everyones favorite.. the most popular of all clans:

BEST NOOB CLAN... Free co for everyone! lol

Drawing 'decent' clans has nothing to do with engineering. We have fought quite a few VERY good clans over the past 130 or so wars... well organized - hard hitting clans that have either beat us- tied us - or came close to winning. If you want to win - you will engineer your clan. If you want 'hard fights' or 'epic battles' or a bunch of losses mixed in your war log - then sure... dont bother to stack the bottom.. dont have your players do the .5 upgrades.. heck dont even bother maxing anything - just rush your accounts - throw down those infernos and eagle artilleries... so what if your golems are still no unlocked and your strongest troop is a level 2 dragon... im sure that UN engineered base will win lots of wars for any clan it decides to join...

I'd rather have the guy with level 20/20 heroes - max golems - max hogs - max dark spells and zero xbows - zero infernos - no eagle - heck I dont even want him to have all the defenses bought.. Just be defenseless please... thats fine by me.. 49 defenseless bases with one strong defender on top-- enemy can get all but 1 star; but we will get ALL the stars and win... a win is a win- no matter how it comes to us.. the faster the better - the more the better - of course... having all defenseless in a war is silly; I dont REALLY want that. its an over exaggeration. but 5 or 10 defenseless on bottom; sure.. im fine with that... 5 or 10 minimax - great... gimme about 10 or 15 hybrids with attack power 3x higher than their defensive weight - then put 5 or 10 strong defenders on top of the map... mix in a few normal players who have no clue what engineering is and let them look around to see what style of base they would enjoy playing the most... THAT is my perfect war clan design... a few of every account mixed together.
May 20th, 2016
logos

Quote:

Originally Posted by blombardo

What clan would tango be a part of? - and Mr Humbob? the only reference to that player anywhere here is

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...s-a-little-bit

stating that he left...

--Regarding excuses for the war losses - and wins-- I DO THAT...

I specifically compare our top players - with the enemy top players - every war...and I specifically point out if they were out matched- or if we were out matched- and I specifically mention the facts based on 'if that clan has the skill - research and ability to get a perfect score on its enemy...

I simply dont calculate how many wins we had based on out matches in our favor -- because its only happened a handful of times... just as the losses (6 of them) have been pretty rare... I have better things to do that track tons of statistics - that I think supercell should track automatically... I do what I can-- but I run almost 20 accounts... theres not enough time in the day to handle that many accounts - be active in forums - run 2 clans and co lead a third - while maintaining relations with various other clans in our family AND finding time to help / direct/ teach new people how to do basic things in game...

Forgive me ... but you gotta see my point here ♥♥♥♥... I'm one guy; not a computer. I'm not hiding any info from anyone - and im not trying to imply that we are anything more than what we are. A very successful low level clan that wins almost every war it fights... with speed - and skill. As most players get 6 stars per war once they are trained...

==I'd love to match your clan one day - Love Cheat Love? I'll keep my eyes out.

-Now Logos; omg you said a lot.. and unfortunately I have to respond to it all --

First - yes calling someone a troll is an insult... He insulted me with his comments - I replied with some facts and corrections - that should not have been necessary - especially pointing out that TIES break win streaks but dont necessarily mean a failure-

=Second - I've never heard of this guy before his comments here... so = I've never seen such a calculator by him. Care to link me to it? I have spent close to 80 hours working on my weight thread and I'd love to compare notes if he has info thatI dont.

=Third -- Engineering accounts - is needed at every level. TH6 has three air defenses now... Thats very tricky for a new player to take down... unless they go defenseless/ or hybrid engineered build -- and stay with th4 mirrors up through th8 when they unlock level 3 dragons... THEN with their level 3 drags- 200+25 camps and dark spells -- then they can up their weight a bit and easily slaughter those th6 bases... Plus they will be able to clean higher bases if needed...

You may think its not needed - or wise - to do this at low levels - but I'd say keep your weight low - as low as th4 to 6 -- FOREVER.. until you have 40/40 heroes at th10 - then move into 11 with mirrors of th7 and 8... Apparently you and I have different opinions of how to win wars... I've been using ZERO dark elixer in war for half a year... I can Drag Loon / or loonion (little dark) or - god forbid - lavaloons down every th9 below that I come across -- every last drop of dark elixer goes 100% into research and heroes. Sure once in a while I have to make a GoHo style army with max golems max hogs... but meanwhile - every other 'normal' player out there has been using Dark troops -every war - every time since th8.. and probably getting high 2 stars with them - and loosing tons of dark every war (cause lets face it-- you spend 20% more on dark troops than you can ever earn in loot returns... war loot has been broken for a few updates)

So whats better for your account? Easy elixer wars - using 100% of your dark to upgrade your stuff? Or being forced to use dark troops in war (or fail) Personally I never use dark troops - unless I have to... and I won't ever use them unless I have to -- until my heroes and research are 100% max... (about another year at least )

WRONG... Engineered accounts win everywhere... I have two th11 accounts that mirror up to max th8 and new th9. Each has mid heroes around 20/25/10 -- each win every war.. because their MIRRORS can not 3 star them... yet they can 3 star much higher up on the map... Max Lava walls slow down everything... Who needs big xbows - infernos and eagles when u ahve a few big heroes -- and a weak mirror...

I dont understand what you mean by mod wars... - but there is ALAWYS a need for Extra attacks -- someone will always mess up and - normally in our wars - we have about 5 to 10 accounts in the end - who have the power to 3 star enemy 1 and 2. That means they can clean up any base on the map.. and because of that- we normally get perfect wars... I never want to run out of attacks / attempts before we have a perfect war...

So - If you have a brand new Dodge Dart - you fixed it up - tuned it for speed; modified your exhaust , intake etc... -- your saying it will never be a part of the 'racing community' because its not a million dollar super fact elite race car? It cant be the best because its hiding down there in the low speed races...?

NO.. your wrong -- its just a DIFFERENT LEAGUE... nightmareGuild -- and many other clans out there-- are attempting to do the same exact thing that your 'best' war clans are doing... we are just newer players - lower levels - weaker heroes and newer to the community. I built my clan because I wanted to experience a fast paced - hardcore war clan where everyone in the clan was serious about the game- serious about winning - serious about getting perfect scores every war and getting faster times every week. Check back in 2 or 3 years when we are all max level players with big strong accounts - then maybe you will stop looking down your nose at us... but you really can't compare our clans to max th11 style players... its just not going to be possible for a long time.

As I explained to him - TIES break war win streaks - as do the handful of losses we have suffered (before) we engineered ourselves to avoid those losses. as a purely town hall 3 to 7 clan we had a 56 win streak - quite respectable; about 300 clans have that currently... as we expanded into th8/9 and 10 we suffered a handful of losses -- growing pains - out matched - etc. WE DID NOT LEARN how to manage war weights until a few months ago. now all of our accounts are being engineered to win - and now instead of 'loosing' wars after every 10 to 15 wins -- now we get TIES every 10 to 15 wins... and - soon - we will build our defenses up to a point where the enemy will no longer tie us.-- its a work in progress and we are about 75% of the way to being un beatable. At worst - with a bad mis match -against an engineered clan that does it better than us -- (soon) it will be a TIE at worst... Kind of hard to guarantee those results when our best accounts are barely 10/10 on the hero scale in our average wars... once they are 25/25 - things will be a lot different.

I want to win wars - and I want to win them FAST. Those are the two things that interest me. Being the clan that can clear 150 stars on a map - faster than any other clan -- is a goal that we can reach... its a goal that any clan - of any level can reach - because that goal doesnt require having a 3 year old account with max everythings... it requires a clan full of players who log in when the war starts - donate to each other - and play together - at the same time - in a big fun busy group... Then after a few hours the clan is a ghost town again and we all go back to real life...

There is that word BEST again... You kknow - 'BEST' is a word that really needs clarification...

BEST farming clan?
Best donating
Best pushing
Best WAR (*Add ten more variables to describe different types of war clans)
Best low level war clan
best mid level war clan
best end game war clan
best 'ambush / fast paced' war clan (cant say Ambush apparently it has dual meanings)
and of course - everyones favorite.. the most popular of all clans:

BEST NOOB CLAN... Free co for everyone! lol

Drawing 'decent' clans has nothing to do with engineering. We have fought quite a few VERY good clans over the past 130 or so wars... well organized - hard hitting clans that have either beat us- tied us - or came close to winning. If you want to win - you will engineer your clan. If you want 'hard fights' or 'epic battles' or a bunch of losses mixed in your war log - then sure... dont bother to stack the bottom.. dont have your players do the .5 upgrades.. heck dont even bother maxing anything - just rush your accounts - throw down those infernos and eagle artilleries... so what if your golems are still no unlocked and your strongest troop is a level 2 dragon... im sure that UN engineered base will win lots of wars for any clan it decides to join...

I'd rather have the guy with level 20/20 heroes - max golems - max hogs - max dark spells and zero xbows - zero infernos - no eagle - heck I dont even want him to have all the defenses bought.. Just be defenseless please... thats fine by me.. 49 defenseless bases with one strong defender on top-- enemy can get all but 1 star; but we will get ALL the stars and win... a win is a win- no matter how it comes to us.. the faster the better - the more the better - of course... having all defenseless in a war is silly; I dont REALLY want that. its an over exaggeration. but 5 or 10 defenseless on bottom; sure.. im fine with that... 5 or 10 minimax - great... gimme about 10 or 15 hybrids with attack power 3x higher than their defensive weight - then put 5 or 10 strong defenders on top of the map... mix in a few normal players who have no clue what engineering is and let them look around to see what style of base they would enjoy playing the most... THAT is my perfect war clan design... a few of every account mixed together.

TLDR

From the half of your rambling that i read it shows you simply don't understand. Your over here worried about using DE in war, who cares. No one who wars seriously cares about using DE.
MrLee didn't insult you, and you obviously don't understand any points being made. The fact that you don't know who he is says a lot considering you want to sit around talking about war weights.
If you want to find his calculator go look it up on here instead of being lazy.
May 20th, 2016
dorsan

Quote:

Originally Posted by blombardo

Check back in 2 or 3 years when we are all max level players with big strong accounts - then maybe you will stop looking down your nose at us... but you really can't compare our clans to max th11 style players... its just not going to be possible for a long time.

Your clan will not exist in 2 or 3 years. Your players will either burn out from the pressure or you'll get to the point where you are all maxed and realize you are bad at attacking because you never needed good attacking skills to win wars vs outmatched clans.
May 20th, 2016
VeeBirds

I really dont want to read all that text but I guess you get my/our points.
It's always good to compare top players but for what I understood you have hybrid accounts who are not necessairly at the top ? It's hard for me to understand without seeing your clan really. That's why I'm not convinced in your "achievements". Our top has legit accounts (TH10 and several TH9s) and we only engineer our mid-bottom so we win wars on that department. (and rarely perfect).

and I know what clans Tango and Humbob are in but I won't say them, if they want to they will. (Humbob said it plenty of times in the past)
May 21st, 2016
blombardo

2 more off topic comments; and one on topic one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by logos

TLDR From the half of your rambling that i read it shows you simply don't understand. Your over here worried about using DE in war, who cares.

-Who cares? -- I care -- and 90% of the other players in my clan also care... we are dark misers - squeezing every last drop of elixer that we can and focusing it ALL into dark research and hero upgrades. if you love playing with them good for you; I farm with GiBarch - sometimes a little wallbreaker or queen walk combo... I spend zero dark to earn dark... I even ZAP drills! (Yea and I'm proud of it.. go ahead put that drill deep in between the infernos and eagle... I'm gonna zap that puppy dry and walk away with 1800 dark!) I bet you the type of player who hates players like me; lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by logos

TLDR No one who wars seriously cares about using DE.

I guess I'm not SERIOUS about war then... (♥♥♥♥) because I care about it. I cringe every time i make a max golem/lava/hog etc as my dark storage gets drained... I'm quite happy that I can use Dragons or Loons to clear all the th8's and 9's that I get in our wars....(with a few exceptions thatneed a GovaHoWiWipe combo of some sort)

These points have little -- or nothing - to do with engineering a clan... This entire post you made is 100% directed at me and totally off topic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dorsan

Your clan will not exist in 2 or 3 years. Your players will either burn out from the pressure or you'll get to the point where you are all maxed and realize you are bad at attacking because you never needed good attacking skills to win wars vs outmatched clans.

-Again - off topic - why are you bothering to attempt to insult me with your goofy comments; and if you have a crystal ball to see the future 3 or 4 years from now; guess what - I'll happily show you my domain register receipts... i've owned nightmareguild.org for over ten years and its paid up for quite a few years inthe future; who knows if this game will even be online in 5 years time - games come and go... as I move from game to game - I adapt my website. Once I fully master the game and get bored with it -- I move on to another... I expect about another year of this and I'll probably move on. My friends have followed me; and I have followed them for many years - over a variety of games on countless servers... but hey; why belive me... and who cares ? this is off topic.

--Feel free to look at my (one) youtube video - shows 3 attacks. Making snide remarks about other peoples in game skill should be beneath any mature player; im guessing your probably... what... about ten years old? Nothing better to do than try to get a rise out of someone? - wont happen with me... feel free to direct any future comments to my inbox; or to the nearest rock in your back yard.. because it will be listening about as intently as I am.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeeBirds

I really dont want to read all that text

And you think I wanted to type it all? As dark helmet said in Spaceballs -- "I'm surrounded by A@#holes!" I felt the need to correct a few comments others made; as many of them are just flat out wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeeBirds

It's always good to compare top players but ...That's why I'm not convinced in your "achievements". Our top has legit accounts (TH10 and several TH9s) and we only engineer our mid-bottom so we win wars on that department. (and rarely perfect).

My philosophy - is your clan needs at least 5 or 10 attacks- who are fully capable of 3 starring people who are at least 20k heavier than the heaviest weighted players in your clan. In other words - 10 out of 50 people will - always- easily- 3 star the enemy #1 player.

This is how we achieve perfect wars. You make sure the clan grows together; that your trusted core players all have the weights and offensive abilities to always bring home a perfect war. You Never let anyone in your clan who has weight so high - that they could potentially bring a mirror on top that is too strong for you to get 3 stars on. That is the only way to guarantee war wins... and the best way to achieve that-- is to understand war weights -- and to have all your players be conscious of what they pick and choose to upgrade so that = as a clan - your entire team is working towards a common goal.

Our top player is normally a 'maxer' type player who can not normally 3 star on mirror; but has to drop 1 or 2 down. The top is always cleared by our #2 to our #35 accounts... our 36 to 50's are all too weak still to clear the top few... but some of our weakest defenseless accounts can now 3 star any th8 - and new th9's. so in time our low players will be realy solid as well... lvl2 lava / max loon/ lvl3 EQ lvl 6 Light are the levels of those... low weight defenseless bases with strong research are really a valuable asset to any clan - especialy as they get to th9 and 10 and get heroes developed.
May 21st, 2016
VeeBirds

Quote:

Originally Posted by blombardo

My philosophy - is your clan needs at least 5 or 10 attacks- who are fully capable of 3 starring people who are at least 20k heavier than the heaviest weighted players in your clan. In other words - 10 out of 50 people will - always- easily- 3 star the enemy #1 player.

This is how we achieve perfect wars. You make sure the clan grows together; that your trusted core players all have the weights and offensive abilities to always bring home a perfect war. You Never let anyone in your clan who has weight so high - that they could potentially bring a mirror on top that is too strong for you to get 3 stars on. That is the only way to guarantee war wins... and the best way to achieve that-- is to understand war weights -- and to have all your players be conscious of what they pick and choose to upgrade so that = as a clan - your entire team is working towards a common goal.

Our top player is normally a 'maxer' type player who can not normally 3 star on mirror; but has to drop 1 or 2 down. The top is always cleared by our #2 to our #35 accounts... our 36 to 50's are all too weak still to clear the top few... but some of our weakest defenseless accounts can now 3 star any th8 - and new th9's. so in time our low players will be realy solid as well... lvl2 lava / max loon/ lvl3 EQ lvl 6 Light are the levels of those... low weight defenseless bases with strong research are really a valuable asset to any clan - especialy as they get to th9 and 10 and get heroes developed.

And that's my point
If you have such HUGE error margin I'm pretty baffled you boast about win streaks and perfects. Actually I would be surprised if you don't perfect most of your wars with that roster.
Now don't take me wrong I'm not picking on your clan
If you can at worst perfect draw it means you achieved the ultimate target of engineering
May 23rd, 2016
blombardo

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeeBirds

And that's my point

If you can at worst perfect draw it means you achieved the ultimate target of engineering

Yes that would be ideal-- 29 or so wars now its been the fact. though here on our current war we are meeting a clan with ; not so much engineered accounts as a clan with insane Weight hiding skills and a couple engineered accounts...

Enemy 1 is 85k our #1 is 55k
Enemy 2 is 68k our #2 is 54k

of course enemy #1 has three max infernos and 3 max xbows - and one heck of a hard base design... Max Lavaloon is unable to clear it - max dragons likely wont clear it.. (high 2) what you need there is 20/20 heroes - and a solid ground attack wtith 100% max troops and max spells to clear such a beast... our clan does not have such a strong account - so here we face our first enemy in a while that -- we have zero chance of getting a perfect against... unless we gem - about $400.00 worth of gemming. I'll take the red line if needed.. not spending that kinda money to score a perfect.

They - of course - can easily get a perfect on us... their #1 already smacked down our #1 like a nuclear bomb hitting a preschool... Their top ten accounts are all strong research - high dark troops - and their 3 to 19 are all light weight high research th7i/8 ish -- their #20 to 50 are all zero / low weight th3 people...

They have engineered a more extreme clan that I have managed to do... Give me about 12 more weeks and maybe I can engineer such a clan to compete with them- - give me 16 more weeks and I'll have hero levels big enough to beat them....

I'm no expert on engineering - I am just a player trying to learn the tricks; and help others learn them as well.

Watch out for level 9 Wholez - indonesian clan - I dont know if they will get a perfect on us =but they sure could... lol
May 23rd, 2016
TangoFever

Quote:

Originally Posted by blombardo

Yes that would be ideal-- 29 or so wars now its been the fact. though here on our current war we are meeting a clan with ; not so much engineered accounts as a clan with insane Weight hiding skills and a couple engineered accounts...

Enemy 1 is 85k our #1 is 55k
Enemy 2 is 68k our #2 is 54k

of course enemy #1 has three max infernos and 3 max xbows - and one heck of a hard base design... Max Lavaloon is unable to clear it - max dragons likely wont clear it.. (high 2) what you need there is 20/20 heroes - and a solid ground attack wtith 100% max troops and max spells to clear such a beast... our clan does not have such a strong account - so here we face our first enemy in a while that -- we have zero chance of getting a perfect against... unless we gem - about $400.00 worth of gemming. I'll take the red line if needed.. not spending that kinda money to score a perfect.

They - of course - can easily get a perfect on us... their #1 already smacked down our #1 like a nuclear bomb hitting a preschool... Their top ten accounts are all strong research - high dark troops - and their 3 to 19 are all light weight high research th7i/8 ish -- their #20 to 50 are all zero / low weight th3 people...

They have engineered a more extreme clan that I have managed to do... Give me about 12 more weeks and maybe I can engineer such a clan to compete with them- - give me 16 more weeks and I'll have hero levels big enough to beat them....

I'm no expert on engineering - I am just a player trying to learn the tricks; and help others learn them as well.

Watch out for level 9 Wholez - indonesian clan - I dont know if they will get a perfect on us =but they sure could... lol

Looking at your clan and enemy, this looks like the match making algorithm is working exactly as intended. And no, this is not sarcasm.
May 24th, 2016
blombardo

Matchmaking system is working better; still could use some tweaks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TangoFever

Looking at your clan and enemy, this looks like the match making algorithm is working exactly as intended. And no, this is not sarcasm.

You are incorrect. the match making system is -almost - working as intended. Two clans - identical in total wins - identical in win streaks - and identical in combined total weight over 50 players... The flaw in the system is that it is (or was) supposed to take the weights of the TOP FEW PLAYERS and give them a much higher value for compatibility. In other words - our 1 and 2 being out matched by 40k total weight was not exactly cool... the overall blurring of the numbers - where they had a ton of weak accounts on bottom to hide strong ones on top - us engineers know that trick - supercell hasn't properly adjusted their war matching system to combat it.

They -engineered- their war to be unbeatable..

In the end I had to spend $120. us dollars in gems to upgrade about 6 levels of research on a few spells and units in order - to barely - get a tie.. in the end with one unit left - mostly dead - vs their last inferno and only seconds remaining... we barely tied it... that makes 30 perfect wars in a row for us...

I used to think supercell did this on purpose to line their pockets with cash... give the players a choice -- LOOSE... or PAY to tie... there are quite a few players like myself who would rather pay up than see their war log go red... I don't mind supporting the game designers; have donated / paid for games many times over the years... But now I see that its not supercell doing it (anymore at least) - its the clan leaders themselves - engineering their clan to be un beatable... I mean.. how many people will fork out 120.00 for that last star... I'm guessing not too many. So I just need to engineer better -- so I dont get stuck in the position of needing to pay to gem again...

Due to the extreme nature of that clans low weight hiding system I am forced to adopt the same strategy and am no longer accepting any new accounts above town hall 4... yep... my th 3 to 6 clan is only taking town hall 3 and 4 - or defenseless... we will need to have almost 30 of those style accounts in order to be able to beat those type of clans at their own game; I for one dont intend to pay cash every time I get out played... lol But I really Do want 50 perfect max star wars in a row... sure 50 wins would be nice... but I did that already - had 56 wins... now I want 50 perfect max 150 stars in a row...

We have lowered the overall weight of our clan by about 80k since the last war -- and this war we have got an enemy that is 100% town hall 8. Their top few players have max th8 research and defenses... unfortunately for them- we have a bunch of hybrid th9 and 10's that have freaky engineered bases and leggo walls... anti level 3 dragon for th8 camps... our bases only go down with th9 camps level 3 drags -- or with gowipes that are higher research levels than th8 allows.. So the enemy clan this war - has zero chance to perfect us... unless they gem - a few accounts - and im talking abuot $300.00 per account x 3 accounts they would need to be able to tie our clan... So we have engineered an easy win- that we can not loose... Just like the enemy clan did to us last round; our current enemy is a totally normal clan with nothing engineered...

I have compiled a list of all engineered clans we have come up against in the past 140 or so wars.. I did not include the clan tags for many of those clans; there are not that many... but those other clan leaders looking for examples of engineered clans can look at the following link / list.

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...=1#post7445762

And due to some comments about the data I track - I agree - and have modified what I track... back when we began and had nothing to show -- an 'almost' perfect war was the best we could strive for... now we get perfects all the time... pointless for me to track inferior stats.
so-- I have added wins/engineered and losses/engineered to the list of variables. New concepts to our clan that were not looked at before.

A smart general chooses his own battlefield, a smart clan leader sets his clan up to win - from the moment they click 'begin search'.

The only down side is - low rewards in war loot.. but war loot has always been a loosing battle for the year and a half that I've played... I've - never- turned a profit in war.. ever.. I always loose about 3 to 4x what I win in bonus loot... with all the clan donations I do - and even just the dark armies alone - costs almost 3k dark to beat a base that rewards you 1500... Clan war money rewards need to be quadrupled... or at least doubled.

NG (Level 9 perks) Stats 5-23-16
Wins (total): 131
Wins (due to our smart Engineering) 6
Losses (due to player error): 1
Losses (due to mis-matched in Enemy's favor): 6
Losses (due to Engineered clans): 0
Ties: 6
Best win Streak:56
Best 'Perfect' streak: 30
Wars since our last loss: 30
Max stars / Perfect:74
May 24th, 2016
redgreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by blombardo

- us engineers know that trick -

They -engineered- their war to be unbeatable..

In the end I had to spend $120. us dollars in gems to upgrade about 6 levels of research on a few spells and units in order - to barely - get a tie..

I used to think supercell did this on purpose to line their pockets with cash... give the players a choice -- LOOSE... or PAY to tie... there are quite a few players like myself who would rather pay up than see their war log go red...
its the clan leaders themselves - engineering their clan to be un beatable... I mean.. how many people will fork out 120.00 for that last star... I'm guessing not too many. So I just need to engineer better -- so I dont get stuck in the position of needing to pay to gem again...

So the enemy clan this war - has zero chance to perfect us... unless they gem - a few accounts - and im talking abuot $300.00 per account x 3 accounts they would need to be able to tie our clan... So we have engineered an easy win- that we can not loose... Just like the enemy clan did to us last round; our current enemy is a totally normal clan with nothing engineered...

A smart general chooses his own battlefield, a smart clan leader sets his clan up to win - from the moment they click 'begin search'.

NG (Level 9 perks) Stats 5-23-16
Wins (total): 131
Wins (due to our smart Engineering) 6
Losses (due to player error): 1
Losses (due to mis-matched in Enemy's favor): 6
Losses (due to Engineered clans): 0
Ties: 6
Best win Streak:56
Best 'Perfect' streak: 30
Wars since our last loss: 30
Max stars / Perfect:74

there is some priceless info in here :thumbsup:

keep em coming :smirk:

i would seriously love to visit your clan :saywhat:

you are doing it right it seems :facepalm:

tricks for no0bs ma friend...tricks for no0bs

i miss the old war clan sub forum.....sighh
May 24th, 2016
VeeBirds

120$ to tie a war whew I'm so happy I'm in a more relaxed environment
May 24th, 2016
TangoFever

Quote:

Originally Posted by blombardo

You are incorrect. the match making system is -almost - working as intended. Two clans - identical in total wins - identical in win streaks - and identical in combined total weight over 50 players... The flaw in the system is that it is (or was) supposed to take the weights of the TOP FEW PLAYERS and give them a much higher value for compatibility. In other words - our 1 and 2 being out matched by 40k total weight was not exactly cool... the overall blurring of the numbers - where they had a ton of weak accounts on bottom to hide strong ones on top - us engineers know that trick - supercell hasn't properly adjusted their war matching system to combat it.

Gees so much incorrect info..where do i start.
-total wins? irrelevant in MM
-win streaks? irrelevant in MM
-total weights? almost irrelevant in MM, more focus at the top bases according to SC
-comparing weight of your #1 and #2 mirrors? almost irrelevant in MM. According to SC, bases are matched ''lanes'' by ''lanes'', which does not necessarily mean mirror by mirror.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blombardo

They -engineered- their war to be unbeatable..

In the end I had to spend $120. us dollars in gems to upgrade about 6 levels of research on a few spells and units in order - to barely - get a tie.. in the end with one unit left - mostly dead - vs their last inferno and only seconds remaining... we barely tied it... that makes 30 perfect wars in a row for us...

Unbeatable? Again, not really...since your clan just got beat (again), regardless whether if 120$ was spent. A tie is not a win. Perfect scores are nice, but not when your clan is on the receiving end of one. It Just shows that you have weak defenses.

Go ahead and imitate your enemy...manipulating weight like your clan does just lead to more mismatches, which ultimately will lead to more losses, as it is shown in your last war.

Btw, clan Wholez that you just tied, has a record of 134-26-1, or 45-4-1 in current war log...not exactly unbeatable either.
May 24th, 2016
TankSinatra

So you're engineered to produce mismatches in your favor, yet often find yourself on the bad side of a mismatch... Is it worth considering, perhaps only for a moment, that your understanding of matchmaking might be flawed?
May 25th, 2016
blombardo

lots of replies;

Quote:

Originally Posted by redgreen

there is some priceless info in here :thumbsup:

i miss the old war clan sub forum.....sighh

-Glad someones learning something here...

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeeBirds

120$ to tie a war whew I'm so happy I'm in a more relaxed environment

-yea Vee... I hate to loose... I can afford to spend a little cash once in a while in the game... and I'm pretty determined to get 20 more perfect wars in a row... so any future clans we come up against; watch out... I'll pay if I have to... I plan to get 150 stars every time... Thats my goal; 50 perfects in a row... -- I was hoping that someone else would offer INFO or ADVICE to help me learn more here-- but all I'm getting are people who want to argue and call me out as being -wrong - a lier -or who just seem to want to argue... Ideally I'd like to get 50 wins in a row again -- no ties... I dont seek to break TOP BTM's record of 250 some wins in a row... thats insane.. but I would like to find a happy medium between defense and offense... I'm just focusing on offense right now.. making sure we have that perfected before I tweak the defenses... I used to do the RENT A DEFENSE and cancel it trick every hard war... rented a pair of infernos and an xbow one roudn -- we won by a tie percentage.. ooh i miss that trick..

Quote:

Originally Posted by TankSinatra

So you're engineered to produce mismatches in your favor, yet often find yourself on the bad side of a mismatch... Is it worth considering, perhaps only for a moment, that your understanding of matchmaking might be flawed?

Tank; you ask a good question -- The only people who know how matchmaking really works -- are the staff at supercell. There are probably a few hundred players who help arrange wars between clans who have a rough idea of how it works - I have knowledge that is comparable to those players; educated guesses based on my personal analysis of every upgrade done on twenty accounts over the past 18 months; where I have tracked every weight increase on every thing I have done with each account.

I have manipulated the overall weight of my clan in various ways - tryiing different combinations - moving my accounts in and out to create different weights - and have -almost - figured out the perfect combination of how to get a perfect war every time... My understanding is very very good... Every loss we have ever had - or tie - is something I can explain quite simply with simple math.

The times we are on the 'bad side' of a mismatch -- are the times that other clans have done a BETTER JOB of engineering -- who have gone more extreme in their clan makeup... those clans who have spent more time in game - with higher attack power accounts...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TangoFever

Gees so much incorrect info..where do i start.
-total wins? irrelevant in MM
-win streaks? irrelevant in MM
-total weights? almost irrelevant in MM, more focus at the top bases according to SC
-comparing weight of your #1 and #2 mirrors? almost irrelevant in MM. According to SC, bases are matched ''lanes'' by ''lanes'', which does not necessarily mean mirror by mirror.

Unbeatable? Again, not really...since your clan just got beat (again), regardless whether if 120$ was spent. A tie is not a win. Perfect scores are nice, but not when your clan is on the receiving end of one. It Just shows that you have weak defenses.

Win STREAKS are supposed to be a part of MM - if they were implemented at this time or not -- Who knows -- however the facts remain -- comparing my clan to that clan -- THOSE PARTICULAR ITEMS WERE MATCHES - were they meant to be matches? Who knows... are they always matches? of course not! but the GOSH DARN FACTS OF THE MATTER are that they WERE pretty well IDENTICAL and ... omg I really wanna swear up a storm at you... OMG -- why are you just not getting this? Do you not understand anything about war weights and clan engineering? Are you incapable of learning? I stated FACTS... based on the current match - those were the facts jack!!! Were they supercells doing? part of their matching system? IT DOES NOT MATTER BECAUSE THOSE WERE THE DARN FACTS OF THE MATCH!

Weight -- is how clans are matched.

ANY ARRANGED WAR -- is ARRANGED BASED ON WEIGHT..
You know how they are arranged? Two clans put an even number of players on EACH SIDE of the war -- EACH position is matched with almost IDENTICAL weight - with identical town halls - identical HERO LEVELS -- all the way down as close as it can possibly be --- they click start at the exact same time -- and BINGO; arranged war -- MATCH ...

Total weight irrelivent? Guess what bucko; I've added up the total weight of quite a few of our clan war matches - and guess what? They are pretty dark close to identical - every time I've added them up-- with a few exceptions from a few months back where they were mis matched... cant recall exactly how much without looking - but the excel spreadsheets are all there online to see if you browse my 26 pages of topics... if clan #1 has a two MAX th11's and 48 defenseless.. and clan #2 has 4 max th9's and 46 defenseless -- GUess which clan will win? -- The one with the two max th11's.. because they managed to hide stronger bases on top -- using MORE weaker accounts... The th9's have no shot at 3 starring the th11's... and those th11's will easily clear the four th9's... the defenseless will cancel each other out.

Mirror to Mirror is the only 'fair' way to do it... using 'lanes' as you say is quite simply one more Vague reference to a hidden secret system that supercell refuses to share with us -- so for ME to say I know how it works... I'd be a freaking moron... and for YOU to tell me that I'm WRONg -- because you know how it works -- guess what? Theres a big M word directed your way too buddy. and its NOT Mirror... We can only guess-- and my guesses have a lot of educated numerical - statistical data to back them up. 130 wars worth- 20 accounts worth and countless hours of me messing around with arranged wars between clans.

--Back to the 'unbeatable' reference again -- get off of it... UN beatable is a vague reference to a concept of creating a match that can not be won by one side unless that side chooses to pay REAL money for gems to boost their accounts enough to be capable of getting a 3 star. IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE A LITERAL TERM.

It just shows that our clan has weak defenses?

Did you read what I typed? -- wait.. no you didnt... because anyone who READ IT - would have read that the enemy #1 was a town hall TEN - with max infernos - max xbows and had insanely higher attack power than our #1... which is a fully max th8 - and a new th9 -- with fully upgraded defenses - 100% fully upgraded MAXING STYLE player... -- not everyone in our clan is a low weight weak defenseless player - we have quite a few MAXERS mixed in here and there who have -- very good -defenses -for their level...

BUT a max th8/ new th9 - is NOT going to hold up against a strong th10 who is insanely stronger -- 40k heavier in weight... it's VERY FRUSTRATING TO ME THAT YOU DONT SEEM TO KNW WHAT THE HECK YOUR TALKING ABOUT tango... Your just NOT READING or just not comprehending.. or just ignoring half of what I say so that you can spout random wrong information... You're making me wonder if yuor just THICK - bull headed - or just messing with me to see how long I'll try to explain this... YOU're being very difficult.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TangoFever

Go ahead and imitate your enemy...manipulating weight like your clan does just lead to more mismatches, which ultimately will lead to more losses, as it is shown in your last war.

WRONG again...Come on tango... READ what I've typed... open your darn eyes already... I told you that the enemy clan engineered their own clan -- to be much lighter weight on the bottom; therefore THEY ENGINEERED BETTER THAN US.. and thats how they won. This current war -- our engineering has guaranteed us the win - in the exact same way it worked for our enemy last war.. THE CLAN that has the lower weight on the bottom -- who hides the strongest accounts the best -- will always win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TangoFever

clan Wholez that you just tied, has a record of 134-26-1, or 45-4-1 in current war log...not exactly unbeatable either.

UN BEATABLE -- is a variable - based on the war match. Who knows what their other wars looked like; I dont - you dont - and the fact of the matter is that it DOES NOT MATTER what their other wars looked like -- I saw this one. I saw a crazy strong th10 -- with a super strong th9 - followed by 48 low weight weak accounts hiding those powerful bases on top... I saw a clan that knew which defenses had high weight -- so they left them low -- and how to hide high level defenses so that they would get matched up with a clan that was SO WEAK in comparison that they could easily get a perfect... -- and we had to spend cash to try to match them... or loose...

Again; I'm stating facts here... as I see them - right now - You're just trying to argue and point out random details that are not valid to the point I'm making.

If you carefully watch the weight of your account - and always insure that you have the attack power needed to 3 star players who are at least 30k higher than your own weight; then you - as a #1 player will never fail to 3 star your enemy #1 opponent.

That statement is one I have made many times - and this past war it was put to the test.. I had to 3 star a base that was actually 50k heavier than the account that I used to 3 star it... Enemy 1 was about 85k and I used a hybrid (not quite defenseless - but really low defensive weight of 35k with town hall 10 attack power that was our #15 or so in war.

If your clan stacks the bottom with tons of low level accounts -- you can hide very powerful accounts on top. The clan with the strongest account on top -- will win.

It is really quite simple... The strongest top player will win every war - the trick to engineering is to be the clan WITH that strongest player.
January 16th, 2017
kaboler

Bump this old post!
January 16th, 2017
kaboler

This post is 10 months old, and look at all the complaining about mismatches and engineering!
January 16th, 2017
SuperStorm103

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLeeGrahamNord

It needs to be deleted.

... All your "engineering" suggestions concern only th8- ranges. And the truth is - it is easy to win at that range even without any engineering at all. Just need to play the game for the second time and have some experience. You match noobs and beat them but it means not that much to normal war clans neither you affect them with your "strategy". My words can be easily backed by the facts that TOP BTM, FostertheCore, super bear etc. etc. had huge 100-150+ win streaks with regular max th8, th7 accounts - without any engineering.

I would watch how you were going to defend against max th9s without xbows or wizard towers on the other hand...

Watch

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...pslm0izdgq.png

easy!

(attacker not technically maxed, but still)
January 16th, 2017
MrJackrabbit

you can go back to the beginning of the clan war section and still see it. takes about 5 pages in I think.