Engineering FAQ and HOWTO

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Originally Posted by blombardo

Yes that would be ideal-- 29 or so wars now its been the fact. though here on our current war we are meeting a clan with ; not so much engineered accounts as a clan with insane Weight hiding skills and a couple engineered accounts...

Enemy 1 is 85k our #1 is 55k
Enemy 2 is 68k our #2 is 54k

of course enemy #1 has three max infernos and 3 max xbows - and one heck of a hard base design... Max Lavaloon is unable to clear it - max dragons likely wont clear it.. (high 2) what you need there is 20/20 heroes - and a solid ground attack wtith 100% max troops and max spells to clear such a beast... our clan does not have such a strong account - so here we face our first enemy in a while that -- we have zero chance of getting a perfect against... unless we gem - about $400.00 worth of gemming. I'll take the red line if needed.. not spending that kinda money to score a perfect.

They - of course - can easily get a perfect on us... their #1 already smacked down our #1 like a nuclear bomb hitting a preschool... Their top ten accounts are all strong research - high dark troops - and their 3 to 19 are all light weight high research th7i/8 ish -- their #20 to 50 are all zero / low weight th3 people...

They have engineered a more extreme clan that I have managed to do... Give me about 12 more weeks and maybe I can engineer such a clan to compete with them- - give me 16 more weeks and I'll have hero levels big enough to beat them....

I'm no expert on engineering - I am just a player trying to learn the tricks; and help others learn them as well.



Watch out for level 9 Wholez - indonesian clan - I dont know if they will get a perfect on us =but they sure could... lol

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Looking at your clan and enemy, this looks like the match making algorithm is working exactly as intended. And no, this is not sarcasm.

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Originally Posted by TangoFever

Looking at your clan and enemy, this looks like the match making algorithm is working exactly as intended. And no, this is not sarcasm.

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You are incorrect. the match making system is -almost - working as intended. Two clans - identical in total wins - identical in win streaks - and identical in combined total weight over 50 players... The flaw in the system is that it is (or was) supposed to take the weights of the TOP FEW PLAYERS and give them a much higher value for compatibility. In other words - our 1 and 2 being out matched by 40k total weight was not exactly cool... the overall blurring of the numbers - where they had a ton of weak accounts on bottom to hide strong ones on top - us engineers know that trick - supercell hasn't properly adjusted their war matching system to combat it.

They -engineered- their war to be unbeatable..

In the end I had to spend $120. us dollars in gems to upgrade about 6 levels of research on a few spells and units in order - to barely - get a tie.. in the end with one unit left - mostly dead - vs their last inferno and only seconds remaining... we barely tied it... that makes 30 perfect wars in a row for us...

I used to think supercell did this on purpose to line their pockets with cash... give the players a choice -- LOOSE... or PAY to tie... there are quite a few players like myself who would rather pay up than see their war log go red... I don't mind supporting the game designers; have donated / paid for games many times over the years... But now I see that its not supercell doing it (anymore at least) - its the clan leaders themselves - engineering their clan to be un beatable... I mean.. how many people will fork out 120.00 for that last star... I'm guessing not too many. So I just need to engineer better -- so I dont get stuck in the position of needing to pay to gem again...

Due to the extreme nature of that clans low weight hiding system I am forced to adopt the same strategy and am no longer accepting any new accounts above town hall 4... yep... my th 3 to 6 clan is only taking town hall 3 and 4 - or defenseless... we will need to have almost 30 of those style accounts in order to be able to beat those type of clans at their own game; I for one dont intend to pay cash every time I get out played... lol But I really Do want 50 perfect max star wars in a row... sure 50 wins would be nice... but I did that already - had 56 wins... now I want 50 perfect max 150 stars in a row...


We have lowered the overall weight of our clan by about 80k since the last war -- and this war we have got an enemy that is 100% town hall 8. Their top few players have max th8 research and defenses... unfortunately for them- we have a bunch of hybrid th9 and 10's that have freaky engineered bases and leggo walls... anti level 3 dragon for th8 camps... our bases only go down with th9 camps level 3 drags -- or with gowipes that are higher research levels than th8 allows.. So the enemy clan this war - has zero chance to perfect us... unless they gem - a few accounts - and im talking abuot $300.00 per account x 3 accounts they would need to be able to tie our clan... So we have engineered an easy win- that we can not loose... Just like the enemy clan did to us last round; our current enemy is a totally normal clan with nothing engineered...

I have compiled a list of all engineered clans we have come up against in the past 140 or so wars.. I did not include the clan tags for many of those clans; there are not that many... but those other clan leaders looking for examples of engineered clans can look at the following link / list.

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...=1#post7445762

And due to some comments about the data I track - I agree - and have modified what I track... back when we began and had nothing to show -- an 'almost' perfect war was the best we could strive for... now we get perfects all the time... pointless for me to track inferior stats.
so-- I have added wins/engineered and losses/engineered to the list of variables. New concepts to our clan that were not looked at before.

A smart general chooses his own battlefield, a smart clan leader sets his clan up to win - from the moment they click 'begin search'.

The only down side is - low rewards in war loot.. but war loot has always been a loosing battle for the year and a half that I've played... I've - never- turned a profit in war.. ever.. I always loose about 3 to 4x what I win in bonus loot... with all the clan donations I do - and even just the dark armies alone - costs almost 3k dark to beat a base that rewards you 1500... Clan war money rewards need to be quadrupled... or at least doubled.

NG (Level 9 perks) Stats 5-23-16
Wins (total): 131
Wins (due to our smart Engineering) 6
Losses (due to player error): 1
Losses (due to mis-matched in Enemy's favor): 6
Losses (due to Engineered clans): 0
Ties: 6
Best win Streak:56
Best 'Perfect' streak: 30
Wars since our last loss: 30
Max stars / Perfect:74

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Originally Posted by blombardo

- us engineers know that trick -

They -engineered- their war to be unbeatable..

In the end I had to spend $120. us dollars in gems to upgrade about 6 levels of research on a few spells and units in order - to barely - get a tie..

I used to think supercell did this on purpose to line their pockets with cash... give the players a choice -- LOOSE... or PAY to tie... there are quite a few players like myself who would rather pay up than see their war log go red...
its the clan leaders themselves - engineering their clan to be un beatable... I mean.. how many people will fork out 120.00 for that last star... I'm guessing not too many. So I just need to engineer better -- so I dont get stuck in the position of needing to pay to gem again...



So the enemy clan this war - has zero chance to perfect us... unless they gem - a few accounts - and im talking abuot $300.00 per account x 3 accounts they would need to be able to tie our clan... So we have engineered an easy win- that we can not loose... Just like the enemy clan did to us last round; our current enemy is a totally normal clan with nothing engineered...


A smart general chooses his own battlefield, a smart clan leader sets his clan up to win - from the moment they click 'begin search'.



NG (Level 9 perks) Stats 5-23-16
Wins (total): 131
Wins (due to our smart Engineering) 6
Losses (due to player error): 1
Losses (due to mis-matched in Enemy's favor): 6
Losses (due to Engineered clans): 0
Ties: 6
Best win Streak:56
Best 'Perfect' streak: 30
Wars since our last loss: 30
Max stars / Perfect:74

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there is some priceless info in here :thumbsup:

keep em coming :smirk:

i would seriously love to visit your clan :saywhat:

you are doing it right it seems :facepalm:

tricks for no0bs ma friend...tricks for no0bs

i miss the old war clan sub forum.....sighh

120$ to tie a war whew I'm so happy I'm in a more relaxed environment

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Originally Posted by blombardo

You are incorrect. the match making system is -almost - working as intended. Two clans - identical in total wins - identical in win streaks - and identical in combined total weight over 50 players... The flaw in the system is that it is (or was) supposed to take the weights of the TOP FEW PLAYERS and give them a much higher value for compatibility. In other words - our 1 and 2 being out matched by 40k total weight was not exactly cool... the overall blurring of the numbers - where they had a ton of weak accounts on bottom to hide strong ones on top - us engineers know that trick - supercell hasn't properly adjusted their war matching system to combat it.

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Gees so much incorrect info..where do i start.
-total wins? irrelevant in MM
-win streaks? irrelevant in MM
-total weights? almost irrelevant in MM, more focus at the top bases according to SC
-comparing weight of your #1 and #2 mirrors? almost irrelevant in MM. According to SC, bases are matched ''lanes'' by ''lanes'', which does not necessarily mean mirror by mirror.

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Originally Posted by blombardo

They -engineered- their war to be unbeatable..

In the end I had to spend $120. us dollars in gems to upgrade about 6 levels of research on a few spells and units in order - to barely - get a tie.. in the end with one unit left - mostly dead - vs their last inferno and only seconds remaining... we barely tied it... that makes 30 perfect wars in a row for us...

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Unbeatable? Again, not really...since your clan just got beat (again), regardless whether if 120$ was spent. A tie is not a win. Perfect scores are nice, but not when your clan is on the receiving end of one. It Just shows that you have weak defenses.

Go ahead and imitate your enemy...manipulating weight like your clan does just lead to more mismatches, which ultimately will lead to more losses, as it is shown in your last war.

Btw, clan Wholez that you just tied, has a record of 134-26-1, or 45-4-1 in current war log...not exactly unbeatable either.

So you're engineered to produce mismatches in your favor, yet often find yourself on the bad side of a mismatch... Is it worth considering, perhaps only for a moment, that your understanding of matchmaking might be flawed?

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Originally Posted by redgreen

there is some priceless info in here :thumbsup:

i miss the old war clan sub forum.....sighh

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-Glad someones learning something here...

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Originally Posted by VeeBirds

120$ to tie a war whew I'm so happy I'm in a more relaxed environment

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-yea Vee... I hate to loose... I can afford to spend a little cash once in a while in the game... and I'm pretty determined to get 20 more perfect wars in a row... so any future clans we come up against; watch out... I'll pay if I have to... I plan to get 150 stars every time... Thats my goal; 50 perfects in a row... -- I was hoping that someone else would offer INFO or ADVICE to help me learn more here-- but all I'm getting are people who want to argue and call me out as being -wrong - a lier -or who just seem to want to argue... Ideally I'd like to get 50 wins in a row again -- no ties... I dont seek to break TOP BTM's record of 250 some wins in a row... thats insane.. but I would like to find a happy medium between defense and offense... I'm just focusing on offense right now.. making sure we have that perfected before I tweak the defenses... I used to do the RENT A DEFENSE and cancel it trick every hard war... rented a pair of infernos and an xbow one roudn -- we won by a tie percentage.. ooh i miss that trick..

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Originally Posted by TankSinatra

So you're engineered to produce mismatches in your favor, yet often find yourself on the bad side of a mismatch... Is it worth considering, perhaps only for a moment, that your understanding of matchmaking might be flawed?

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Tank; you ask a good question -- The only people who know how matchmaking really works -- are the staff at supercell. There are probably a few hundred players who help arrange wars between clans who have a rough idea of how it works - I have knowledge that is comparable to those players; educated guesses based on my personal analysis of every upgrade done on twenty accounts over the past 18 months; where I have tracked every weight increase on every thing I have done with each account.

I have manipulated the overall weight of my clan in various ways - tryiing different combinations - moving my accounts in and out to create different weights - and have -almost - figured out the perfect combination of how to get a perfect war every time... My understanding is very very good... Every loss we have ever had - or tie - is something I can explain quite simply with simple math.

The times we are on the 'bad side' of a mismatch -- are the times that other clans have done a BETTER JOB of engineering -- who have gone more extreme in their clan makeup... those clans who have spent more time in game - with higher attack power accounts...

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Originally Posted by TangoFever

Gees so much incorrect info..where do i start.
-total wins? irrelevant in MM
-win streaks? irrelevant in MM
-total weights? almost irrelevant in MM, more focus at the top bases according to SC
-comparing weight of your #1 and #2 mirrors? almost irrelevant in MM. According to SC, bases are matched ''lanes'' by ''lanes'', which does not necessarily mean mirror by mirror.

Unbeatable? Again, not really...since your clan just got beat (again), regardless whether if 120$ was spent. A tie is not a win. Perfect scores are nice, but not when your clan is on the receiving end of one. It Just shows that you have weak defenses.

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Win STREAKS are supposed to be a part of MM - if they were implemented at this time or not -- Who knows -- however the facts remain -- comparing my clan to that clan -- THOSE PARTICULAR ITEMS WERE MATCHES - were they meant to be matches? Who knows... are they always matches? of course not! but the GOSH DARN FACTS OF THE MATTER are that they WERE pretty well IDENTICAL and ... omg I really wanna swear up a storm at you... OMG -- why are you just not getting this? Do you not understand anything about war weights and clan engineering? Are you incapable of learning? I stated FACTS... based on the current match - those were the facts jack!!! Were they supercells doing? part of their matching system? IT DOES NOT MATTER BECAUSE THOSE WERE THE DARN FACTS OF THE MATCH!

Weight -- is how clans are matched.

ANY ARRANGED WAR -- is ARRANGED BASED ON WEIGHT..
You know how they are arranged? Two clans put an even number of players on EACH SIDE of the war -- EACH position is matched with almost IDENTICAL weight - with identical town halls - identical HERO LEVELS -- all the way down as close as it can possibly be --- they click start at the exact same time -- and BINGO; arranged war -- MATCH ...

Total weight irrelivent? Guess what bucko; I've added up the total weight of quite a few of our clan war matches - and guess what? They are pretty dark close to identical - every time I've added them up-- with a few exceptions from a few months back where they were mis matched... cant recall exactly how much without looking - but the excel spreadsheets are all there online to see if you browse my 26 pages of topics... if clan #1 has a two MAX th11's and 48 defenseless.. and clan #2 has 4 max th9's and 46 defenseless -- GUess which clan will win? -- The one with the two max th11's.. because they managed to hide stronger bases on top -- using MORE weaker accounts... The th9's have no shot at 3 starring the th11's... and those th11's will easily clear the four th9's... the defenseless will cancel each other out.

Mirror to Mirror is the only 'fair' way to do it... using 'lanes' as you say is quite simply one more Vague reference to a hidden secret system that supercell refuses to share with us -- so for ME to say I know how it works... I'd be a freaking moron... and for YOU to tell me that I'm WRONg -- because you know how it works -- guess what? Theres a big M word directed your way too buddy. and its NOT Mirror... We can only guess-- and my guesses have a lot of educated numerical - statistical data to back them up. 130 wars worth- 20 accounts worth and countless hours of me messing around with arranged wars between clans.



--Back to the 'unbeatable' reference again -- get off of it... UN beatable is a vague reference to a concept of creating a match that can not be won by one side unless that side chooses to pay REAL money for gems to boost their accounts enough to be capable of getting a 3 star. IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE A LITERAL TERM.

It just shows that our clan has weak defenses?

Did you read what I typed? -- wait.. no you didnt... because anyone who READ IT - would have read that the enemy #1 was a town hall TEN - with max infernos - max xbows and had insanely higher attack power than our #1... which is a fully max th8 - and a new th9 -- with fully upgraded defenses - 100% fully upgraded MAXING STYLE player... -- not everyone in our clan is a low weight weak defenseless player - we have quite a few MAXERS mixed in here and there who have -- very good -defenses -for their level...

BUT a max th8/ new th9 - is NOT going to hold up against a strong th10 who is insanely stronger -- 40k heavier in weight... it's VERY FRUSTRATING TO ME THAT YOU DONT SEEM TO KNW WHAT THE HECK YOUR TALKING ABOUT tango... Your just NOT READING or just not comprehending.. or just ignoring half of what I say so that you can spout random wrong information... You're making me wonder if yuor just THICK - bull headed - or just messing with me to see how long I'll try to explain this... YOU're being very difficult.

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Originally Posted by TangoFever

Go ahead and imitate your enemy...manipulating weight like your clan does just lead to more mismatches, which ultimately will lead to more losses, as it is shown in your last war.

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WRONG again...Come on tango... READ what I've typed... open your darn eyes already... I told you that the enemy clan engineered their own clan -- to be much lighter weight on the bottom; therefore THEY ENGINEERED BETTER THAN US.. and thats how they won. This current war -- our engineering has guaranteed us the win - in the exact same way it worked for our enemy last war.. THE CLAN that has the lower weight on the bottom -- who hides the strongest accounts the best -- will always win.

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Originally Posted by TangoFever

clan Wholez that you just tied, has a record of 134-26-1, or 45-4-1 in current war log...not exactly unbeatable either.

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UN BEATABLE -- is a variable - based on the war match. Who knows what their other wars looked like; I dont - you dont - and the fact of the matter is that it DOES NOT MATTER what their other wars looked like -- I saw this one. I saw a crazy strong th10 -- with a super strong th9 - followed by 48 low weight weak accounts hiding those powerful bases on top... I saw a clan that knew which defenses had high weight -- so they left them low -- and how to hide high level defenses so that they would get matched up with a clan that was SO WEAK in comparison that they could easily get a perfect... -- and we had to spend cash to try to match them... or loose...

Again; I'm stating facts here... as I see them - right now - You're just trying to argue and point out random details that are not valid to the point I'm making.

If you carefully watch the weight of your account - and always insure that you have the attack power needed to 3 star players who are at least 30k higher than your own weight; then you - as a #1 player will never fail to 3 star your enemy #1 opponent.

That statement is one I have made many times - and this past war it was put to the test.. I had to 3 star a base that was actually 50k heavier than the account that I used to 3 star it... Enemy 1 was about 85k and I used a hybrid (not quite defenseless - but really low defensive weight of 35k with town hall 10 attack power that was our #15 or so in war.

If your clan stacks the bottom with tons of low level accounts -- you can hide very powerful accounts on top. The clan with the strongest account on top -- will win.


It is really quite simple... The strongest top player will win every war - the trick to engineering is to be the clan WITH that strongest player.

Bump this old post!

This post is 10 months old, and look at all the complaining about mismatches and engineering!

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Originally Posted by MrLeeGrahamNord

It needs to be deleted.

... All your "engineering" suggestions concern only th8- ranges. And the truth is - it is easy to win at that range even without any engineering at all. Just need to play the game for the second time and have some experience. You match noobs and beat them but it means not that much to normal war clans neither you affect them with your "strategy". My words can be easily backed by the facts that TOP BTM, FostertheCore, super bear etc. etc. had huge 100-150+ win streaks with regular max th8, th7 accounts - without any engineering.

I would watch how you were going to defend against max th9s without xbows or wizard towers on the other hand...

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Watch

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...pslm0izdgq.png

easy!

(attacker not technically maxed, but still)